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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2006 : 8:25:15 PM
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Mickey Kaus has been writing a lot of interesting commentary on Hollywood's desperate attempts to claim that Brokeback Mountain is a big heartland hit (you'll need to scroll down a bit):
http://www.slate.com/id/2136045/#breakoutmeme
Long story short Kaus argues that Brokeback Mountain was a success in liberal coastal enclaves like New York and left-coast California, but was a big bust in the Heartland. Its also no big surprise that Gibson's The Passion of the Christ was a big hit in the heartland while tending to bomb on the coasts.
I'm asking Jabootu's minions to set aside subject matter and Kaus' speculations as to political fallout, because I think his arguments form a bigger caution to Hollywood about the problems it confronts. Brokeback Mountain seems to have turned a profit, so Middle America be damned. At the same time, there have been a host of stories about Hollywood's falling profits and alienation of Middle America is arguably one of many causes.
To mix a bunch of metaphors - will Hollywood burn bridges or pull up the drawbridges? Its possible that one of the lessons of Brokeback Mountain is that Hollywood can totally ignore popular opinion and aim all their output at the "parentheses" - the coasts. |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2006 : 8:38:04 PM
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| Well, the main thing is an audience is where you find it. These broad generalities really don't give an accurate picture. There is money to be had in either market, and the key is to make sure the picture is pushed enough in that market and to not spend more on the film than it's likely to make. |
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Juniper
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
616 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2006 : 9:13:03 PM
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I think that's a somewhat skewed picture and gives play to some beyond tired sterotypes. It didn't play at as many theaters perhaps in "flyover country" (I think I'd need hard data to back this up) but where it did it did fantastic business with people coming from miles around to see it. Though really I'm not sure how much water this theory holds as even my small NC town has it playing at the local multiplex. I think it's an intresting case of what normally would be oscarbait for just a select few cities actually doing considerable (if not spectacular business) in areas where convential wisdom says it wouldn't. And I think it shows promise to idea of gradually releasing a film first to the major cities to build word of mouth then onwards. I would love to see this, as for the few films that intrest me I have to wait to for them to come to dvd around here.
"The Devil Made this Movie for You!" |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 03:30:03 AM
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I'm not buying it. BROKEBACK has pulled in upwards of $60 million thus far and a movie simply does not pull in that much money from the "blue states" alone. Given the nature of the movie (Straight or Gay, we all know this one falls into the artsy fartsy romance category), there's no reason to expect it to be some runaway blockbuster. It's already on track to make about as much if not a little more at the box office than THE ENGLISH PATIENT, the last artsy romance to win the Best Picture Oscar.
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Dirk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 10:24:38 AM
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| I just can't believe that people are still using the phrase "classic tale of star-crossed lovers". |
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TimLehnerer
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 11:03:36 AM
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| According to the IMDB it made a bit over 51 million in US theaters on a budget of 14 million. Admittedly, there are still advertising costs to recoup and the like, but what kind of Bizarro World is it where 51 million dollars worth of tickets sold for a 14 million dollar budget movie is not a hit? |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 1:27:56 PM
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I don't think anyone's arguing that it's a hit, just questioning the assertion that it's a break out hit in the red states. The question is whether there's been much market, er, penetration in the heartland.
Michael Moore made similar claims for Fahrenheit 9/11 (that it was making huges amounts all over the country), which made quite a bit more than BBM. Eventually, somebody got a hold of the secret breakdown data specifying how much the movie made where, and it turned out that (surprise) the film basically made its nut in large metropolitan areas and on the coasts.
As noted, Mel Gibson's The Passion, which made about double what BBM and F911 have put together, pretty much did the same thing in reverse.
But yes, certainly, for a low-budget film BBM is raking in a pretty good amount of dough. I mean, it's no Saw II or anything, but it's making a very nice buck.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 1:35:43 PM
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It is a financial success, but it is not a breakout hit.
We need to define terms here. By definition, a movie produced for $500,000 that grosses $2 million would be financially successful. But it would also have failed to have reached a wide audience. By contrast, a movie that grosses $200 million but costs nearly as much to produce (and that happens a lot these days) could be said to be a box office hit but not a financial success.
Brokeback was a smart financial investment for the studio because it was produced on such a tight budget. Bigger name stars would have only added to the film's bottom line without, I believe, contributing significantly to the overall gross. |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 4:33:44 PM
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The real test will be to see how it does the weekend following the Oscars since, assuming it wins Best Picture, the film that won the Oscar usually gets a strong boost the weekend after the show.
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TimLehnerer
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 4:55:59 PM
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http://www.salon.com/ent/col/fix/2006/01/23/mon/index.html
A rather snide look at a group of rather snide quotes about whether or not "Brokeback Mountain" is going to make any money.
And from the blue state commie-liberal-PC-latte drinker haven of Montana:
In Missoula, Mont., a town of just under 60,000, the film has been a big hit since it opened at the cavernous Wilma Theater on Jan. 6, grossing $33,006, cumulatively, in its first four weekends there. A representative for Focus Features calls the movie's performance in Missoula "amazing." And Bill Emerson, who manages the 85-year-old theater, confirms that "Brokeback's" draw has been "one of our best starts for a movie we've ever had."
Of course, Missoula is a college town that has long served as a haven for Montana's liberals, hippies and artists. But "Brokeback" isn't doing well only in Missoula. In Kalispell, a stronghold of conservatism in the northwest part of the state, the film opened last Friday and took in $3,656 at the box office its first weekend, a draw Focus says it's "very happy" with. In the equally conservative ski town of Whitefish, where the film also opened on Friday, it was the weekend's top draw, taking in $2,312 and beating out "Big Momma's House 2," "Nanny McPhee" and "Underworld," the top three national box-office draws.
That's starting to stretch the boundaries of fair use, so I'll give another link if you'd like to read the rest of it:
http://www.salon.com/ent/col/fix/2006/02/02/thurs/index.html
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 5:54:03 PM
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beating out "Big Momma's House 2," "Nanny McPhee" and "Underworld,"
I think that's damning with faint praise. :-)
I'll give my two cents here. First, BBM is a hit, but it's far from some runaway film with massive word of mouth. The word of mouth tends to be split between a good film and it could have ended about three times but just kept dragging. In a decade, I figure the film will be about as memorable as The English Patient.
Second, Hollywood is starting to realize that they can segment the movie market beyond the general and art house film. I think you will start to see movies tailored to different political and religious segments of America.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 6:35:39 PM
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"conservative ski town"? I haven't been to one of those yet. Is it like a "liberal oil town"?
I wonder how it did in Minot or the UP of Michigan or West Texas.
Pip |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 9:23:24 PM
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Just to chime back in, I want to make it clear that I'm by no means arguing whatsoever that Brokeback Mountain is not a hit. In fact, my point is based upon the exact opposite belief. Even though Hollywood has totally thumbed their noses at "flyover" country in hyping this movie, it has turned a tidy profit for them in the coastal markets. And TL don't take this as a hit, but I think your link above largely supports my thesis. The article admits that Missoula, MT is a college town. The only real success the movie has enjoyed in what could loosely be confused with the Heartland is in college towns. I can guarantee that Brokeback Mountain was a big hit in Iowa City, Iowa for instance. When I went to school at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, the state representative from the county was an avowed member of the Socialist Party. During my years of attendence, there were several flaps that resulted from the tendency of instructors in various Liberal Arts departments to incorporate the showing of gay pornography into the core curriculum.
What I wonder is whether or not Hollywood will ultimately find it in its best economic interests to just give up on the "red states" entirely. As this year's Academy Award nominations show, Hollywood is interested in stories about gays, transsexuals, "Bush is an idiot" and the horrors of McCarthy-ism. The success of Brokeback Mountain shows that they can turn a tidy profit marketing these types of films to their confreres on the coasts. Why should they even try to appeal to audiences in Branson, MO if they can make money by making films that touch on matters of the greatest concern to them?
For comparison, look at the Rush Limbaugh media empire. You can love, hate or be completely indifferent to the man, but he has undeniably found his niche. There is a vast market for conservative talk out there and Rush has tapped into it. He undoubtedly has a lot of liberal listeners, but there is no effort whatsoever on his part to tailor his message so as to attract more of them. What if Hollywood comes to realize that their interest in both turning a profit and being artistic is best served by taking a niche on the opposite side of the aisle? |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 11:27:56 PM
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Good grief. The prestige pics that Hollywood has nominated for best picture this year are hardly reflective of the backbone of movie industry. It's about money, people. The Oscars is about Hollywood patting itself on the back for making a few quality artistic films while spending the rest of the time making movies solely based around the concept of risk management. Dittmar, do you honestly think that the people running Hollywood are going to "abandon" the "red states" and not produce the countless G/PG rated animated films and stop making banal family friendly junk like THE PACIFIER and CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN 2 just to thumb their nose at middle America? If so, you're as out of touch with reality as many of them are.
This whole red state/blue state crap is proof positive that a large percentage of liberals and conservatives have taken complete leave of their senses while the nes media is too lazy to do anything other than play into it all.
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Long Cut
Archdeacon of Jabootu
19 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 11:44:16 AM
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R.D., I think your concern about H'Wood ignoring the "red states" because they can still make money on the blue are unfounded.
Economics tells us that where there is demand, there WILL be supply. "Red" and "Blue" areas might prefer different focus to their entertainment, but the demand for the entertainment itself is still there. The collective industry we refer to as "Hollywood" is in business to ultimately make money, and lots of it. It is also perfectly capable of supplying both demand-groups.
So, if the trends continue and America becomes more and more split along ideological lines, you can expect more films like "Capote" and BBM, in addition to more along the lines of "Passion". It did NOT escape Hollywood's notice that Mel Gibson made nearly a billion dollars on a movie that they mostly discounted, and his success certainly flagged the Heartland as a new vein of money to be mined.
Even if Hollywood DID ignore this vast potential profit, economics also tells us that a supply will arise, possibly from another source. Nothing, after all, stops someone with money and drive starting his OWN movie company removed from Hollywood. Picture it...Branson, MO, or maybe Memphis, TN as the "Red" Tinseltown (although I'd bet on Orlando, FL). We'd get all our G-rated "family fare", religious films, and patriotic war movies from there, and all the artsy-fartsy stuff from Hollywood.
Cash always finds a home. If it's not welcome in Hollywood (and I cannot ever see this being the case), someone will build it one.
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"My father was a drunk, a gambler, and a womanizer. I worshipped him!"...CWO Paul Brenner |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 12:01:04 PM
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Instead of assuming that all the 'red' America wants is banal comedies like Cheaper by the Dozen, why aren't there little 'artier' films made that tell the other side of the story?
Every once in a while Hollywood makes a movie about the "McCarthy era" (The Front, Guilty by Association, The Majestic, Good Night and Good Luck), and the message is always the same: There were no communist agents, the search for them was purely a 'witchhunt' driven by hysteria, etc.
In essence, while better made, these films don't distort the historical record any less than the more overtly anti-commie films Hollywood churned out at the time, like John Wayne's hilarious Big Jim McLain. And given the remove of time, they are more forthrightly dishonest.
How about a thriller about the Rosenbergs? Let's see, American couple tries to the steal the secrets behind mankind's most destructive weaspon ever in order to pass them to mankind's greatest mass-murderer ever. Seems to me there's a story there.
I always wondered if the box office for Jarhead petered out so fast because of bad word of mouth. The commercials made the film look strongly pro-military, with key emphasized lines being stuff like, "Every day I thank God for the Corps," and "I joined because I wanted to protect my country." Did audiences go to see the movie those commmercials promised and walked away unhappy with what they got instead?
How about some forthrightly pro-Iraq war movies? How about some films about the Soviet gulag, certainly one of the most dramatic stories in history? How about some films celebrating capitalism rather than attacking it? (I mean overtly celebrating it, as a theme: Capitalism is good.) Where's the right-wing Michael Moore? How come nobody's hired liberatarian P.J. O'Rourke to make a movie?
By the way, a lot of the basic questions here could be answered easily enough if the studios would just release the box office data. This debate would be a lot more meaningful if we had all the info available, and frankly, I'm not sure what is gained by keeping it all a secret.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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