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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2006 : 10:51:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
My statement about hatefulness and hypocracy relates to Malkin's readers (Here, for instance: [url]http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004740.htm[/url]) who have been deriding the CPT's faith from the comfort of their armchairs.
OK, that letter was a little more overwrought, but even so, referring to someone as a "so-called Christian" hardly compares to calling Michelle Malkin a "c**t".
quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
So Ann Coulter is a "fringe figure" who doesn't count against the right...but a bunch of random nuts with obscure websites, and people who post on Daily Kos and Eschaton (not the site's founders, just people who post there) are examples of the mainstream left?
It isn't just people who post on Daily Kos, it's Markos Zuniga himself. For example, his pronouncement over the deaths of the contractors murderered and hung from a bridge by insurgents in Fallujah:
"I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren't in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them."
Never mind that all four of the so-called "profiteers" were US military vets, one of whom had previously served in Desert Storm and Somalia and another who had served in Bosnia. One of them had recently lost his house and declared bankruptcy, was living in a trailer on a $14,000 a year salary and needed money to make his child support payments. Yeah, greedy bugger... screw him, too.
quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
And no, I don't consider a two-time Republican presidential candidate and the one-time leader of one of the larger conservative lobby groups in American history to be fringe figures.
Robertson failed in his two presidential bids. Neither he nor Falwell are elected officials, and their views are certainly not representative of either Republicans or Christians and I'm willing to bet they don't speak for many Evangelicals either. So, yeah, that would put them squarely in the fringe category.
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Edited by - zombiewhacker on 05/02/2006 11:09:33 PM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 07:08:03 AM
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If Falwell is such a fringe figure why did John McCain meet with him recently? Now I don't believe for a moment that McCain buys into Falwell's world view but he is savy enough to know that his chances in the Republican primary will be greater if he at least keeps Falwell neutral on him. Falwell obviously has some influence in the party and can hurt a candidiate's chances if he comes out against them.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 11:36:35 AM
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Falwell has a lot less influence with the Republican Party than noted extortionist Jesse Jackson has with the Democratic Party. Or the Reverend Al Sharpton.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 05/03/2006 11:37:29 AM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 12:12:56 PM
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"Falwell has a lot less influence with the Republican Party than noted extortionist Jesse Jackson has with the Democratic Party. Or the Reverend Al Sharpton"
I wouldn't refer to them as "fringe" figures either. Each party has it's embarrassing members who can't just be brushed off as "fringe" because they actually have influence in their respective parties. So Sharpton, Jackson, Falwell and Robertson are not fringe figures; if they get to speak at the national convention the party has to anwer for them. If you want "fringe" we can talk about Lyndon Larouche, the John Birch Society or Tom Laughlin.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 9:37:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
If Falwell is such a fringe figure why did John McCain meet with him recently?
Big deal. He's also met with Cindy Sheehan. |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 06:57:10 AM
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Is this the way that potential presidential candidates treat "fringe" political figures?:
http://news.outsidethebeltway.com/2006/03/mccain-to-speak-at-falwells-liberty-university/
Would this be acceptable behavior if he gave the head of the John Birch Society or the leader of the US Communist party the same treatment?
And, no, Sheehan isn't a "fringe" figure either.
We may not like it but the truth is that people like Falwell and Sharpton, while they may represent the extremes of their respective parties, are not on the political fringe in this country. "Fringe" for me means groups and people exist outside the dominant two pary structure of American political debate, Nazis, Communists, KKK, Anarchists and the like , not Ann Coulter or Michael Moore.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 10:26:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
It isn't just people who post on Daily Kos, it's Markos Zuniga himself. For example, his pronouncement over the deaths of the contractors murderered and hung from a bridge by insurgents in Fallujah:
"I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren't in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them."
Never mind that all four of the so-called "profiteers" were US military vets, one of whom had previously served in Desert Storm and Somalia and another who had served in Bosnia. One of them had recently lost his house and declared bankruptcy, was living in a trailer on a $14,000 a year salary and needed money to make his child support payments. Yeah, greedy bugger... screw him, too.
Note also Zuniga's implication - right out of Marxism for Dummies - that people who work for money forfeit any moral, or even human, sympathy.
Hey, when I was a security guard I worked at womens' health clinics among other places. By Daily Kos standards, I was a mere "mercenary" and if some anti-abortion loon blew me away with a hunting rifle, well, no big deal, right? It's not like I took some soldier's or policeman's oath of service, is it? I was just there for the paycheck.
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Boards don't hit back.
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 10:37:23 AM
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Marxism is the opiate of grad students.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 3:49:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
Is this the way that potential presidential candidates treat "fringe" political figures?:
http://news.outsidethebeltway.com/2006/03/mccain-to-speak-at-falwells-liberty-university/
Would this be acceptable behavior if he gave the head of the John Birch Society or the leader of the US Communist party the same treatment?
The logic escapes me. Because McCain chooses to pander to the likes of Jerry Falwell, that proves Falwell isn't a fringe character. Maybe what it really proves is that McCain is a shameless opportunist who will do anything it takes to scratch out a few extra votes.
Need I remind EricB that congressman Charles Rangel once held a banquet in Fidel Castro's honor when Castro came to New York to address the UN. Applying EricB's logic, the fact that Rangel reached out to Castro somehow proves that Castro is not on the political fringe.
quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
And, no, Sheehan isn't a "fringe" figure either.
Of course she is. Don't be ridiculous. What would you call her, then? Mainstream?
quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
We may not like it but the truth is that people like Falwell and Sharpton, while they may represent the extremes of their respective parties, are not on the political fringe in this country. "Fringe" for me means groups and people exist outside the dominant two pary structure of American political debate, Nazis, Communists, KKK, Anarchists and the like , not Ann Coulter or Michael Moore.
First of all, there's no veting process for who gets to be in what party. Anyone can declare themselves a Republican or a Democrat. There's no law against it. There are no party requirements. No eye exam, no pap smear, no breathalizer test.
David Duke ran as a Democrat in the 80s, then as a third party candidate, and finally as a Republican in the early 90s. When Duke declared himself a Democrat, did that mean he was no longer on the political fringe? When he joined the Louisiana Populist party, did that mean he had rejoined the fringe? When he switched parties again and declared himself a Republican, are we to conclude that he had mainstreamed himself once again?
Now I will certainly grant that Falwell and his ilk wield more clout than, say, David Duke. But Cindy Sheehan has political clout? Really? You honestly think a candidate for President couldn't win unless they secured the Cindy Sheehan vote? Quite the opposite. Anyone, Democrat or Republican, who is identified in the public mind with the likes of Sheehan is DOA when it comes to the November 2008 elections. Count on it.
(BTW, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure Michael Moore is even a Democrat? I thought I read somewhere that he was either an independent or otherwise belonged to some other third party group.)
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Edited by - zombiewhacker on 05/04/2006 3:53:25 PM |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 4:25:24 PM
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I'll go the extra step and say that anyone who affiliates with a political party as strongly as someone as, say, Sean Hannity, is a fringe person.
The KKK and their ilk aren't fringe, they are dregs. It's mainstream (which is anyone who votes as they see fit, not by who sponsors), fringe, and dregs.
One thing though - Zombie, you think if someone associates with Sheehan they're doomed. It depends on how the political climate is at the time of elections. I felt for her, and partially agreed with her initial purpose, but her most recent sound bites of calling Bush a terrorist, etc....in that I agree with Hannity - she's no longer her own person, but a puppet. If Bush's popularity sinks any lower, then those who align with her come 2008 may get a bit of a boost.
Ugh. I think i'm done posting in here. I feel unclean talking politics this long (and where are my book references for McCarthy?)
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2006 : 06:58:25 AM
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"the fact that Rangel reached out to Castro somehow proves that Castro is not on the political fringe"
Umm, Castro is leader of an entire country, that hardly qualifies him as a "fringe" figure. Of course if he was an American politician and spouted the same views he would be "fringe." Look, people like Falwell and Sheehan speak for small but well organized groups who have do have some (though not overwhelming)influence in their respective parties. Do you consider the Christian Right or the anti-Iraq War wing of the Democratic party as "fringe?" In the primaries their influence in some of the elections is crucial. These constituencies therefore have a political clout that Nazis and Communists just don't have. They simply can be dismissed as "fringe." What I was trying to say (probably not very well) was that in my view "fringe" shouldn't be judged by the content of the ideology but on the numbers and influence that such ideologies are able to wield. Nazi's and Communists don't really have the clout to influnce American politics , the constituencies represented by Falwell and Sheehan do, at least during the nomination precesses of their respective parties.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2006 : 07:01:01 AM
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Ugh, it's early. "They simply CAN'T be dismissed as "fringe."
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2006 : 1:28:03 PM
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(Grins) It's okay. You can edit your replies by clicking that icon that looks like a memo with a diagonal pencil running through it.
Back on topic:
I would argue that Fidel Castro most certainly is a fringe figure. Though... the way Central America and South America are starting to swing politically, in a few years that might no longer be so. He'll have plenty of company.
Anyway, you make one mistake with your analysis. You conflate Jerry Falwell with the entire religious right. Most conservative Christians neither share Falwell's extreme views nor support him. (Many probably don't even know what he looks like, and I'll be willing to bet that a lot of 20-something and a portion of 30-something conservative Christians have never even heard of him. He's old school, baby!)
In short, to say that "the Christian Right wields significant clout" equates with "Jerry Falwell wields significant clout" doesn't quite wash. But I'm not going to belabor the point. None of us here are defending these looney tunes. We simply differ on our definition of "fringe". |
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BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:41:37 PM
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Sorry to bring up such an old topic, but when I read this, it reminded me so much of the initial point of this thread, that I had to post it, and I think it goes a long way in showing that unreasonable anger is not confined to one side of the aisle or the other.
Bear in mind this is not a screed from a right wing fringe lunatic blogging in his pajamas (as the stereotype goes), but rather this man was in charge of writing speeches for our current President. In addition to calling the left either misinformed or liars (there appears to be no option C), he says:
[url]I hate the left[/url]
quote:
I used to laugh these people off. Now I detest them as among the most loathsome people America has ever vomited up.
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Food
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 9:30:07 PM
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| Link doesn't work, dude. |
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