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Paul LoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
420 Posts |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2006 : 2:20:53 PM
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I'm personally not impressed with the vampire argument, because a) all life expands its population geometrically, and somehow life continues to exist and b) even vampire films of the 1930s pointed out that disbelief in vampires was the most potent weapon in the vampire arsenal, and that disbelief would obviously fall apart unless vampires had a low population.
Still, disbelief of films and avoiding it is a remarkable thing. To my mind, there's only two rules:
a) if your film is good enough, nobody will care.
b) You can get away with the big lies, but not the little ones. <i>Matrix</i> fell completely apart for me because the entire plot relies on perpetual motion.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 6:03:41 PM
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John I'll add another rule:
c) If you try to avoid disbelief, DON'T hammer an unbelievable idea into the viewer again and again. Sooner or later, audiences will say, "Hey, waitaminute!!!" You won't recover from that. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 10:15:23 AM
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Do you mean the same unbelievable idea, or multiple unbelievable ideas?
It's a pretty weird thing, I think. For example, both Superman IV and Spider-Man 2 had "super rescue" scenes that both hinged on the same unbelievable idea: nobody riding a subway can operate the emergency brakes painted bright red, clearly labelled with instructions, and sitting in Every. Single. Car.
Still, people didn't have a problem with the core notion of the films, which, if anything, is even less plausible than subway cars mysteriously running without emergency brakes.
I think there's a sense that it's unfair to slam a film for its central fantasy, no matter how goofy it is. I never heard anyone saying "Catwoman sucks because nobody really has cat powers." I have heard people criticize the more mundane aspects of the film.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 10:59:34 AM
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| Same unbelievable idea, for the most part. I had in mind Spielberg's murdering of War of the Worlds, which has people repeating over and over again the aliens' attack plan, which gets more and more ridiculous ever time we hear it. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 1:00:06 PM
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How about
c) Repeating a stupid plot point does not make it more credible.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 7:23:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
How about
c) Repeating a stupid plot point does not make it more credible.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan
You made my point much more succinctly than I could've. I could curse you, but I'll just thank you. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 8:50:18 PM
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Thank you kindly.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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twitterpate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 11:45:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
How about
c) Repeating a stupid plot point does not make it more credible.
I think that's really CRITICAL in fantasy/sci-fi/superhero movies. If you just say "Superman can fly, or spaceships can travel faster than light, or barnyard animals can talk" people will accept it as "given" in terms of the story. If you try to keep explaining the impossible, people will start to notice and go "But ... that's WRONG!" and the story is ruined.
It's kind of like lying - too much supporting detail ("No, I can't go to your party, because, um, my Significant Other is sick, um, with Ebola, and, um, I have to wait at home for the guys from the CDC to show up...") will let you down you every time. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:28:06 PM
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The same point could also be made for lame exposition.
Take the original Superman. Lex Luthor has one scene where, after reading a flimsy newspaper "interview" of Superman, Luthor not only magically deduces that Kryptonite is fatal to Superman, he also figures out where he can find Kryptonite on Earth. Only there's one problem: the newspaper article never mentions Kryptonite. Never hints at it. No one even knows it exists. Even Superman doesn't know it exists. Luthor just kinda comes up with it on his own.
The movie wisely just moves on. If it had even tried to rationalize how Luthor could have possibly figured all that out by his lonesome self... well, ya know. |
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