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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2009 : 11:42:08 PM
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Check out this Trailer and think "Nothing Sacred"
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUH4GQkFGSs"]Click Here.[/url]
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 11:43:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Nemo
Check out this Trailer and think "Nothing Sacred"
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUH4GQkFGSs"]Click Here.[/url]
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear"
If thats Sherlock Holmes, Pee Wee Herman is Dirty Harry Callahan...
"Vulcans : The designated drivers of the universe."
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
108 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 6:08:47 PM
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Court decides that audiences don't watch Sherlock Holmes films for the plot?
http://www.coolcopyright.com/cases/fulltext/mgmamericantext.htm
"Indeed, audiences do not watch
Tarzan, Superman, Sherlock Holmes, or James Bond for the story, they watch these films to see their heroes at work".
I can understand three out of four as "stupid" movies with less plot emphasis, but Sherlock Holmes, one would intuitively expect some investment in the plot.
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 05:50:35 AM
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| You've go to love such logic. So, to look at the flipside, if you someone made a James Bond movie where instead of getting involved in elaborate action sequences, using cool gadgets and bedding beautiful woman he sat down and made logical deductions to solve the mystery at hand without having to anything but talk to people or a Tarzan movie where he let himself go and became a pudgy snooker champion in downtown LA, people would be okay with it because they're seeing their heroes at work? |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 08:02:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cannon Fodder
You've go to love such logic. So, to look at the flipside, if you someone made a James Bond movie where instead of getting involved in elaborate action sequences, using cool gadgets and bedding beautiful woman he sat down and made logical deductions to solve the mystery at hand without having to anything but talk to people or a Tarzan movie where he let himself go and became a pudgy snooker champion in downtown LA, people would be okay with it because they're seeing their heroes at work?
Wow.
You just described a lot of TV shows...Columbo, for example...
"Vulcans : The designated drivers of the universe."
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
108 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2009 : 5:50:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cannon Fodder
You've go to love such logic. So, to look at the flipside, if you someone made a James Bond movie where instead of getting involved in elaborate action sequences, using cool gadgets and bedding beautiful woman he sat down and made logical deductions to solve the mystery at hand without having to anything but talk to people or a Tarzan movie where he let himself go and became a pudgy snooker champion in downtown LA, people would be okay with it because they're seeing their heroes at work?
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc. v. American Honda Motor Co., Inc., 900 F.
Supp. 1287 (C.D. Cal. 1995) ( court noted that "audiences do not watch
Tarzan, Superman, Sherlock Holmes.......for the story, they watch these
films to see their heroes at work.
The gadgets actually owe more to Doc Savage than to the prose source.
Tarzan....well, Tarzan films have turned scarce of late, but that remains the example from the case. |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 02:00:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Flangepart
Wow.
You just described a lot of TV shows...Columbo, for example...
"Vulcans : The designated drivers of the universe."
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
I guess you're not saying that Columbo was a snooker player. My point was not that nobody would watch a dialogue based investigation show or movie but that it wouldn't be exactly what people would want or expect from a Bond movie just because it featured the character even if it were what they wanted or expected from an episode of Columbo. |
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Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
904 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 11:29:46 PM
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No Deerstalker hat? That's sort of Holme's trademark isn't it? Perhaps it'll show up just before the end credits (Is that the cliche of modern re-imagings: bring in the familiar stuff in the last scene?).
This may be an entertaining film, but, well -- it looks kind of "by the numbers". They do seem to be tossing in things to make th character "edgy", but it's the same "edgy" stuff they've been using for other characters for the last dozen years or so.
Rob
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 03:11:11 AM
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And the funny thing is that Holmes was already edgy in the original stories. Gifted violinist, boxing and martial arts practitioner, drug addict and misogynistic.
No need to add anything else, don't you think? |
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CDiehl
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 1:46:23 PM
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No Deerstalker hat? That's sort of Holme's trademark isn't it?
I believe the hat and cape were orginiated in a play based on one of the books, so I think we can do without them altogether. Personally, I couldn't give half a damn if the movie sticks Robert Downey Jr. in a deerstalker or not. This looks like it'll be a blast.
Also, let's not all jump on our high horses about Sherlock Holmes. The guy is damn near a superhero as it is, what with his superpower of extrapolating information from random clues and his ability not to die after going over a waterfall. In adddition, this movie doesn't appear to be based on one of the books, so what are they screwing up besides somebody's personal image of the character, to which they aren't beholden? Besides, for the time, Holmes was kind of a 19th Century version of an action hero like Indiana Jones.
You know Grand Funk, don't you? The wild, shirtless lyrics of Mark Farner? The bong-rattling bass of Mel Schacher? The ... adequate drumwork of Don Brewer? |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 2:18:14 PM
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Personally, I'm not offended at all. Young Sherlock Holmes keeps coming to mind, the film that turned a teenage Holmes into a swashbuckling Indiana Jones wannabe. And which was a pretty good film.
A different story are the possible reasons behind the changes. Until the film is screened, since it deals whith such a popular character and since Guy Ritchie isn't exactly a great director, there are reasons to be suspicious. |
Edited by - Neville on 05/27/2009 2:18:38 PM |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 01:39:47 AM
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I've heard rumors that they are going to portray Holmes as gsy.
This would be the latest stab from filmmakers to explain why he is so indifferent to women.
Although, if you ask me. This angle was played in Murder by Decree.
How else would you explain this scene?
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPUHMuSxiEo"]Click Here[/url]
WTF? |
Edited by - Capt. Nemo on 05/28/2009 01:40:50 AM |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
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Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
108 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 6:54:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CDiehl
quote:
No Deerstalker hat? That's sort of Holme's trademark isn't it?
I believe the hat and cape were orginiated in a play based on one of the books, so I think we can do without them altogether. Personally, I couldn't give half a damn if the movie sticks Robert Downey Jr. in a deerstalker or not. This looks like it'll be a blast.
Also, let's not all jump on our high horses about Sherlock Holmes. The guy is damn near a superhero as it is, what with his superpower of extrapolating information from random clues and his ability not to die after going over a waterfall. In adddition, this movie doesn't appear to be based on one of the books, so what are they screwing up besides somebody's personal image of the character, to which they aren't beholden? Besides, for the time, Holmes was kind of a 19th Century version of an action hero like Indiana Jones.
Nick Carter probably came a bit closer to that than Sherlock Holmes, but I will note that as one person put it, the Holmes stories do stray a bit into adventure story territory.
http://scarletstreet.yuku.com/topic/6325/t/Disappearance---private-eye-film--detective-films--general.html
Scathach80 wrote: "the less specific mystery genre"-an interesting term could you explain that?
By "less specific mystery genre" I'm referring to those works that are considered part of the greater mystery/detective field but do not have as their central concern or interest the cerebral puzzle elements (such as clues and deductive reasoning). Of course, this brings up many tricky questions of genre boundaries, which we discussed at length in the "Favorite Whodunit Films" thread. It is fairly easy to agree that the early works of Ellery Queen were cerebral puzzle plots, and that the works of Mickey Spillane were not-- but where does one draw the line? For me, many of the Sherlock Holmes stories straddle that line, being as much concerned with action and characterization as with the puzzle, yet such a story as "The Red Headed League" is IMO one of the great (and most influential) puzzle plot tales.
Lelia, I see your point, but I do think there is actually some merit to the court's claim. True, a detective story doesn't (generally) exist without the detective working on a case, and that case is generally a significant point of interest to the story. However, the degree to which the detective's investigation dominates the story varies widely between examples.
Let's take two rather extreme examples for illustration: the films THE THIN MAN and THE LAST OF SHEILA. Both are generally classified as detective and/or whodunit films. Each include a number of murders, an investigation, and an eventual denouement in which the identity of the killer is revealed. However, the emphasis on the elements of characterization and plot are wildly different. Although THE THIN MAN may require a murder plot to propel its action and fill its running time, time and again reviews of the film (and its many sequels) have noted that the mystery plot was far from central to the appeal of the film ("no one ever really cared or remembered who the killer turned out to be in a THIN MAN film" is a typical comment). Audiences undoubtedly went to THIN MAN films primarily to enjoy the amusing byplay and character comedy of its stars, William Powell and Myrna Loy.
With THE LAST OF SHEILA however, while there are also several interesting (if rather disturbingly unsavory) characterizations, the plot is clearly the thing. The film is clearly designed in the tradition of the Golden Age detective novel, which has been customarily noted for (and often harshly criticized for) its emphasis on plot complexity over characterization and other elements.
I've always felt that the Sherlock Holmes stories (and films) seem to rest at the intersection of these two axis, with several of the films (particularly the Rathbone / Bruce series) seeming to belong more to the "character dominated," THIN MAN camp. Personally, as a lover of the pure puzzle plot (as examplified by Christie, Carr, and Queen), I consider many of the Conan Doyle stories to deliver too little bang for the buck-- at least, that is, in terms of what I'm looking for: fascinating clues, brilliant plot deceptions. However, I think that they will always enchant legions readers... yes, due primarily to fascination with the characters of Holmes and Watson (Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin seem to hold a similar sway, and also a similar paucity of plot interest). Still, certain Holmes stories ("Red Headed League" is an example that comes to mind) certainly are of interest as much for the cleverness of their plot as for the character quirks of Holmes and Watson. |
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Food
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 8:38:43 PM
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I'm a hard-core fan of Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories, and I'm not enthused about this movie at all. It seems like a period action piece with the Holmes name tacked on for marketability.
@BobbyG: The deerstalker hat was only one of many that Holmes wore in Doyle's stories. Holmes wore hats appropriate for the locale, i.e. deerstalker for the countryside, top hat or bowler for the streets of London, etc.
As much of a fan that I am, even I'll admit that the stories eventually began repeating themselves. This is understandable, because Doyle himself got sick and tired of Holmes before he had written even half of the eighty-some Holmes stories he wrote. That's why he killed him off in the first place, resurrecting him only after the Queen herself asked him to (it's rumored that she bribed him with knighthood, but I don't know if that's true).
FWIW, I think Jeremy Brett is the only actor who's come anywhere close to bringing the literary Holmes to live on the screen. Granted, many of the others weren't getting any help from the scripts.
I'm not a fan of House, but I'd have to say that that's probably the closest modern day equivalent of Holmes that there is: Superhero because he's super-smart, but he's antisocial, unlikable, unhappy, less interested in the people in need than in the thrill of the mystery for its own sake, and occasionally borderline psychotic. That's Holmes to a T, only Holmes also had a charisma that translated to sex appeal for his female readers. |
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nshumate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
464 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 06:19:55 AM
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@BobbyG: The deerstalker hat was only one of many that Holmes wore in Doyle's stories. Holmes wore hats appropriate for the locale, i.e. deerstalker for the countryside, top hat or bowler for the streets of London, etc.
IIRC, the deerstalker cap was the invention/addition of the original illustrator (I could probably wikipedia his name, but I'm lazy), who (a) wanted to give Holmes some distinctive visual cue, and (b) really really loved his own deerstalker cap.
Nathan Shumate
http://www.coldfusionvideo.com |
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