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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2005 : 2:38:44 PM
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quote:
[code][i]originally posted by John Nowak:
Actually, to defend Footloose, I believe the defense of dancing was that dancing is explicitly accepted as valid in the Bible (there is a time to dance) and not simply that it is mentioned in the Bible.
You are correct, sir.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://henrybrennan.blogspot.com/ |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 6:03:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Ooh... and how could I forget Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Never before have so many famous cartoon characters been assembled together on one screen... and never before have not even one of them had something even remotely funny to say or do. And Bob Hoskins, one of our finest dramatic actors, sadly was not up to the task of handling broad comedy, let alone interacting with animated characters. (Hint to the casting director: next time, think Rowan Atkinson.)
Eye-popping special FX do not a movie masterpiece make, or has somebody already said that?
I liked Roger Rabbit a great deal, but I gotta agree it's not a masterpiece by any count.
If I remember correctly, Chuck Jones hated Who Framed Roger Rabbit. He once said, if you have a scene where a cartoon character and a live character are talking, and the live character is MUCH more interesting (and emotional), something's very wrong. He had a point. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 03:31:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Actually, to defend Footloose, I believe the defense of dancing was that dancing is explicitly accepted as valid in the Bible (there is a time to dance) and not simply that it is mentioned in the Bible.
We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan
Well, that makes it *slightly* less stupid. But again, it's the movie featuring a tractor duel we are talking about. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 03:31:56 AM
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Bill Melendez (of "Peanuts" fame) also hated Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
When enough people tell you you're drunk... |
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Mr. Tambourine Shatner
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
96 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 12:26:53 PM
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Although I believe some films are overrated, I have to disagree with the notions that PULP FICTION and THE MATRIX are dumb or overrated. Movies like that become popular for a reason, and not because of hollow, empty headed critics like Roger Ebert.
"Shut the F**k up, Donny!"
-Infinite words of wisdom from Walter, "The Big Lebowski"
www.devangill.com |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 2:14:55 PM
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Mr. TS, I'll give you that the "Matrix" isn't overrated. The two sequels were junk, but the original is very rewatchable. However, "Pulp Fiction" is just about unwatchable today. I tried watching it recently, but gave up after awhile. "Pulp Fiction" became popular in my opinion because it was ultra violent and swore up and down. Pretty much it was a forerunner of today's HBO shows. It's a formula that causes the film to get swamped by later films willing to be more violent and offensive. Or, people later realize that there's nothing behind that violence and profanity.
On the other hand, while people raved about "The Matrix" for it's special effects, the story behind the special effects makes it a better film. The makers couldn't themselves duplicate the result in later films.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Mr. Tambourine Shatner
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
96 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 3:33:22 PM
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I must disagree with the assumption that PULP FICTION was overrated because of its violence and profanity. Samuel L. Jackson once said that if you stripped so many layers from PULP FICTION as a whole, you would still get a decent morality tale. Anyone who has actually focused on the film cannot deny that the last vignette where Jules has the philosophical conversation with Tim Roth's character was what ultimately summed up the entire movie preceding it. If you look past the gimp, the ass-raping scene, the overdose and adrenaline scenes, and various gunshot wounds (including the part where Vincent accidentally blows Phil LaMarr's brains out in the car), you'll see a movie that in fact paints a clever portrait of lives that are led and changed through, in this case, profanity and violence (which to be honest isn't as heavy as some might think).
Tarrantino admitted up front that the following scenarios and characters were done countless times in pulp novels, hence the title, but it's his fresh perspective that gave them real flavor. He knew what he was doing.
All in all, it's not for everybody, but it should stand the test of time as a damn fine movie, and if you want to talk about a movie that is only about violence and has no point let alone a plot, watch THE DEVIL'S REJECTS when it comes out on DVD.
"Shut the F**k up, Donny!"
-Infinite words of wisdom from Walter, "The Big Lebowski" |
Edited by - Mr. Tambourine Shatner on 09/13/2005 5:18:26 PM |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2005 : 9:56:28 PM
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Saw Crash tonight, then checked the IMDb to see that it's in the 100-best list. Now THAT's overrating it. It had some interesting things to say, and the Don Cheadle storyline was excellent (but that may be because Don Cheadle was a good enough actor to sell it). But it lapsed into preaching, turning characters into mouthpieces, and coincidences that a soap opera writer would be embarrassed to write.
The thought that this might be a Best Picture contender depresses me. |
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dconner
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 09:45:34 AM
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Who Framed Roger Rabbit is in an interesting category of films that tend to age especially poorly - the "bravura technical extravaganza." The novelty and innovation of the interaction between live action and animation (and the plethora of animated "guest stars") was the real drawing card of the movie. But the technology isn't all that stunning these days, and there's just not all that much beyond that to hold your interest. And it could've used a lot more Chuck Jones character-driven sensibility, and less bad imitation of Tex Avery. (A fine animator, but the movie kind of has "the notes, but not the music," distilling his attitude into "do lots of wild, crazy 'takes' with eyes popping out and the like."
It's kinda interesting to look at other "technical showcase" movies that *have* aged well. King Kong, for example, still works, as does the rather similar Jurassic Park.
I'm with the naysayers on The Matrix. I thought the movie was OK, but sort of a watered-down version of stuff I'd seen before (and even though it was "new" to this movie, I swear that "bullet time" thing became a cliche the day this movie came out.) I think the real key to its success was being the first exposure to these SF concepts for a lot of people. I've found the sequels to be essentially unwatchable, though. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 2:40:11 PM
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Count me in in the club that believes The Matrix is overrated. Even the first one, which is the only that deserves some kudos, is nothing but a clever rehash of the Philip K. Dick universe. What happens is the the Wachowsky bros. were clever enough to transform its third act into an all-out action film and to sold the idea to Joel Silver.
As number two and three prove, there was no story to be told, nor even much talent behind the cameras. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 2:53:39 PM
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Not to make a big to-do about this, but I think people are hammering the first Matrix too much on the originality angle. It's a popcorn movie. What counts is the execution, not the substance. So it's been done before. So what?
Remember, most movie fans aren't fanboys and therefore can't be expected to have read every Dick/Ellison/Heinlein novel in existence. Should we diss Night of the Living Dead simply because it "borrows" from Richard Matheson? Or for that matter, The Legend of Hell House because Matheson trods territory already covered by Shirley Jackson, Henry James, and others? |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 09/19/2005 2:54:43 PM |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 3:22:02 PM
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That's a good point ZW. I remember reading a review of "Aliens" done by someone in the late 90's. The person complained that the movie was just things he had seen before and done better and didn't understand why people liked it so much. If he was just talking about the over plot and effects, he is correct. However, he missed the fact that "Aliens" was really one of the first big films with the rollercoaster type feel (see the Ebert review). And that the effects, even by today's standards, are solid. Also, the story is good with great execution.
Now, for the "Matrix", sure some had been done before and parts have been done better later. However, the story was solid and it was executed well. When you get a combination of good story, good production, and good direction, you are going to end up with a movie that is better than 90% of what is out there. "Matrix" meets those requirements.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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CobraCmdr
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
70 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 3:33:45 PM
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Okay, I have to stand up for mainstream slobs again. There is no freakin way Pulp Fiction is "unwatchable". If you don't like violent movies, or profanity, that's understandable, it's not the movie for you. But I happen to love Tarantino's movies, and I still have fun quoting Samuel L. Jackson (often incorrectly) from that movie when I kill one of my buddies in Halo.
Again, as with the Matrix I think the movie has just been parodied or copied too many times, till people are sick of it. That doesn't make it overated, just overexposed.
I've been trying to think of an "Overated" movie to add to this thread, but most of the ones I come up with just reflect my personal prejudices against certain genre's (for example, I've never been a big fan of most classic horror films.) But I don't feel like I know enough about film history to really trash any particular film.
I think Titanic is way overated, but that's a bit of an easy target.
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 3:45:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
What counts is the execution, not the substance.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about The Phantom Menace?
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 6:32:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ubiq
quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
What counts is the execution, not the substance.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about The Phantom Menace?
I'll give my opinion here. TPM isn't a very good movie, but it's not a bomb either. The effects are great but the script needs a lot of help. Lucas needed to give the general idea of what he wanted for the trilogy to someone and then just reviewed the script. Then he should have taken a producer role and let someone else direct. All three movies have moments with great ideas, but they get drowned out, to a lessening degree by each film, by poor dialogue and plotting.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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