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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2005 : 8:24:44 PM
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Just to destroy all my credibility here, I'd like to say that "House of the Dead" isn't half as bad as people made out. It's a long way from being a good movie, sure, but it isn't as bad as the hype suggests.
To also defend "The Matrix", the ideas have been done before, but it was something different when it came out. While retroactively it appears over-stylised to the point of easy parody, it was a breath of fresh air at the time and a deserved sleeper hit.
The problem with the sequels was 1) I don't think the W. Bros really had any sequels written and composed a lot of it on the fly (ie they had a sophmore slump after using up all their good ideas), 2) there was a lot of expectation placed on the sequels and 3) money flooded the productions. I do enjoy the sequels now, but didn't so much the first time I saw them. The secret is to just enjoy the visuals (I have no problem with CGI; it's ALL fake, you know?) and take the overblown philosophisin' with a grain of salt.
By contrast, I also think "The Phantom Menace" failed both the substance and style test. The characters were annoying, the battle scenes frustrating to watch (look, they're doing slapstick on the battlefield! Oh, my sides.) and the special effects, while good, were not that far from things that we'd seen before. For a special effects film, novelty counts for a lot.
Spandex Cinema
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Latest Review - "The Punisher" (2004) |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 9:52:53 PM
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While I enjoyed The Matrix, I gotta put it in my overrated list as well. I don't know about the sequels, since I haven't bothered to see them. But it was interesting to me: Dark City had a lot of the same themes as The Matrix, but it told its story in a more interesting way... and it beat Matrix to the punch by several months.
And Dark City had the sense to keep Marilyn Manson far, far away from its soundtrack. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 01:06:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ubiq
quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
What counts is the execution, not the substance.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about The Phantom Menace?
Phantom Menace was not well executed. Matrix was. |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 01:51:07 AM
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I think "Dark City" is markedly inferior to "The Matrix", but it has that veneer of cool that you get from being a cult movie rather than a big hit.
The world of the Matrix makes more sense, the plot is far better structured, it's more entertaining on a surface level, and most importantly, it doesn't blow all of its twists in an opening voiceover like Dark City.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 01:58:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
... and most importantly, it doesn't blow all of its twists in an opening voiceover like Dark City.
Or Citizen Kane :o) |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 5:47:50 PM
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Well, here's my votes for overrated (plus, the matrix bashing saddens me :(, so maybe this'll bring it back on track ):
*Rushmore
*Royal Tannenbaums
My brothers love his films, and I've tried to watch them. They're dry, pretentious, and his DVD's seem to think they're even cooler with his crappy art. I read an interview with him once, hoped to find some insight as to why I don't like what everyone else seems to, and all I remember is confirming he is as annoying and pretentious and 'arty' as I thought.
*Good Will Hunting
A good attempt for a first run? Yes. Competent acting? Yes. But a movie centered around a foul mouthed, poor mannered jerk who is good in math? Look at it this way; if you removed the profanity and the snappy quotes (How do you like them apples), would the movie stand on its own? Robin Williams shoulda pounded Will into paste. Or, it should have been a 'Dangerous Game' spoof with everyone trying to kill Wil Wheaton.
*Pulp Fiction
A good movie, but not the best. Unlike Good Will Hunting, at least the story kinda stands on its own without the profanity and snappy quotes, but still not deserving of the worship it gets.
*They Live
This is an odd choice compared to the others, but over the long years most genre/cheesy movie buffs I've spoken to LOVE this film. I couldn't remember it, so I bought it and watched it, and found it extremely dry, slow, and dull. One of the mens magazines (Maxim, etc) listed the fight scene between Piper and his friend as one of the coolest ever - I kept it on fast forward.
*The Sound of Music
My mother loved this movie, so I saw it a few times. And when I worked in Kmart, the collectors edition came out and we had it in rotation 24/7 for weeks. I don't see it. Its better than average for a musical, and its competent enough, but its long, full of homely people (which wouldnt be so bad but for the fact its a singing/talking film with little action). On a personal note, after the billionth time seeing it at work, I had that stupid little kid singing the goodbye song on the steps stuck-in-my-freaking-head for weeks.
*Dawn of the Dead (original)
My personal collection is virtually all SciFi or Horror. I have maybe a dozen action films, a handful of comedies, and less than five dramas (though from working at a local movie store, I watch just about ANYTHING that isn't on Lifetime/Oxygen/We).
I say this, because after loving Night, and enjoying Day, I finally got to watch Dawn. I found the most horrific aspect of the movie was the needles I was jabbing into my skin, and the lemon juice in the wounds, that I had to use just to stay awake. Now granted, the music and fashion was a thing of its time, but that didn't make me gag less either. Plus as an added insult, there wasn't really any zombie action. The remake, while being a little less intelligent, managed to be almost as long without being as boring.
*Batman
For this, I get a lot of grief. The first movie was very good, but I've always felt it paled in comparison to Batman Returns. The cast was excellent in both, but the rhythm was better in Returns, the sets and SFX were better, the story less threadbare, less Prince music, and with the exception of the 'doom penguins' segment better all around (and that was only put there by Burton to tick off the suits because they wouldn't let him be as weird as he wanted). Don't get me wrong, Jack Nicholson nailed the Joker down pat (though Mark Hamill's my fav) and I've watched the movie many times.
and lastly, speaking of Burton
*Edward Scissorhands
*Nightmare Before Christmas
The man has done some good films. Beetlejuice, Batman, Batman Returns. But the two above people rave about, and I don't know why. When he's under control, his movies are ok. When he's allowed to cut loose, they suck. I hate Scissorhands. I thought it was dumb, infantile, about as subtle as a fifty pound brick to the head, and insulting to my intelligence. Nightmare was average, maybe slightly above. But not worth the attention devoted to it.. OTOH his version of James and the Giant Peach I felt captured the essense of that surreal book, which I loved as a kid.
And before anyone says 'What about Planet of the Apes', uh.....well....um.....dang it. I actually enjoyed that one. I liked the story, I liked the back info, I liked the variation on the original movie (which was a variation of the original book anyway).
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 6:02:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
... and most importantly, it doesn't blow all of its twists in an opening voiceover like Dark City.
Or Citizen Kane :o)
Um...what twists are revealed in the opening narration of Citizen Kane?
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 01:31:35 AM
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From CITIZEN KANE by Herman J. Mankiewicz & Orson Welles
NARRATOR
Twice married, twice divorced - first
to a president's niece, Emily Norton -
today, by her second marriage, chatelaine
of the oldest of England's stately homes.
Sixteen years after that - two weeks after
his divorce from Emily Norton - Kane
married Susan Alexander, singer, at the
Town Hall in Trenton, New Jersey.
(...skipping down...)
NARRATOR
For wife two, one-time opera singing
Susan Alexander, Kane built Chicago's
Municipal Opera House. Cost: three
million dollars. Conceived for Susan
Alexander Kane, half-finished before
she divorced him, the still unfinished
Xanadu. Cost: no man can say.
(...)
NARRATOR
Kane, molder of mass opinion though he
was, in all his life was never granted
elective office by the voters of his
country.
Few U.S. news publishers have been.
Few, like one-time Congressman Hearst,
have ever run for any office - most know
better - conclude with other political
observers that one man's press has power
enough for himself. But Kane papers were
once strong indeed, and once the prize
seemed almost his. In 1910, as Independent
Candidate for governor, the best elements
of the state behind him - the White House
seemingly the next easy step in a lightning
political career -
(...)
NARRATOR
Then, suddenly - less than one week
before election - defeat! Shameful,
ignominious - defeat that set back
for twenty years the cause of reform
in the U.S., forever cancelled political
chances for Charles Foster Kane.
Then, in the third year of the Great
Depression... As to all publishers, it
sometimes must - to Bennett, to Munsey
and Hearst it did - a paper closes! For
Kane, in four short years: collapse!
Eleven Kane papers, four Kane magazines
merged, more sold, scrapped -
(...)
NARRATOR
Then four long years more - alone in
his never-finished, already decaying,
pleasure palace, aloof, seldom visited,
never photographed, Charles Foster Kane
continued to direct his falling empire
... vainly attempting to sway, as he
once did, the destinies of a nation that
has ceased to listen to him ... ceased
to trust him...
(...)
NARRATOR
Last week, death came to sit upon the
throne of America's Kubla Khan - last
week, as it must to all men, death came
to Charles Foster Kane.
***
Basically, the opening narration telegraphs almost every dramatic punch the movie is about to throw. |
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Monkey
Archdeacon of Jabootu
Ireland
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 06:29:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Matrixprime
*Batman
For this, I get a lot of grief.
Not from me you won't. That film was so hyped and praised at the time of release, and crushingly dull. |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 12:35:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by Matrixprime
*Batman
For this, I get a lot of grief.
Not from me you won't. That film was so hyped and praised at the time of release, and crushingly dull.
Add me to the list of BATMAN-haters. Both of the Burton-Batman's were nothing more than set designs in search of plots and characters to inhabit them. As badly as Joel Schumacher gets (deservedly) bashed for BATMAN & ROBIN, he didn't do anything in that movie that Burton hadn't done first, onl;y with much more pretension & hype. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 12:52:51 PM
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Although I enjoyed the first Batman by Burton inmensely, I'll be the first to admit that the action scenes suck. They are so poorly coreographed and shot that, had Batman begins not been done, they would probably be the worst ever to grace a modern superhero film.
This said, I found the two Batmans by Burton to be almost masterpieces. They might be dull to the casual viewer, but the settings and the fractured personalities of both hero and villains, together with the almost fantastic atmosphere, make them a boot to watch. |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 2:31:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Basically, the opening narration telegraphs almost every dramatic punch the movie is about to throw.
There is a difference between "plot" and "twists". Citizen Kane deliberately lays out the basics of Kane's life right out front--that's part of the dramatic technique. The twists come in learning his motivations and the motivations of the other characters, up until we learn what Rosebud is.
Dark City reveals its major twists, and a few minor ones (like the fact that the Strangers are aliens) in a narrative prologue that was only inserted after the fact when it was felt that the movie was too confusing. It's a hacky afterthought, one which the makers of the Matrix were smart enough to insist on doing without. (I also appreciate that The Matrix pretty much accomplishes everything Dark City does in the opening 20 or 30 minutes, and then just keeps building on it.)
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 08:32:53 AM
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| I too found the Burton Batman movies to be highly overrated. I remember being incredibly disappointed as a child when I finally saw Batman, after all the hype it had got and it didn't seem much better rewatching it in recent years. I enjoyed it a little more as my expectations were suitably lowered but it still didn't cut it. I thought it was dull, lacked any vaguely satisfying action sequences, looked kind of cheap and cheesy and the attempts at being 'dark' and the take on Bruce Wayne really half-hearted. Batman Returns I found to be even worse- childish and joyless at the same time and again muddled and dull. They were better than the Schumacher movies but nobody really praises those. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 4:57:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by UnknownSubject
Just to destroy all my credibility here, I'd like to say that "House of the Dead" isn't half as bad as people made out.
I respectfully disagree. House of the Dead, in my opinion, got a free ride and was dealt with relatively gently, as the English language simply cannot describe the awfulness which is House of the Dead. The film is like some Lovecraftian horror, which cannot be described in mere words. It must be experienced.
2d6 SAN.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Victoria Silverwolf
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2005 : 03:51:00 AM
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Superman -- Sure, Christopher Reeve was perfect casting, but everything else in the movie was just stupid. Making Lex Luthor a funny Bad Guy? The goofy "Can You Read My Mind?" flying scene? Bleh.
Rocky -- This was the Best Picture of the Year? Corny, predictable, and sticky-sweet sentimental. Ick.
Reality is a crutch for people who can't face up to science fiction. |
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