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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2005 : 5:57:49 PM
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I got the first part of my Revenge of the Sith review, and a brief House of Wax '05 review!
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com
Anyone else just start a review site? Post the threads here. Any feedback is welcome, by the by.
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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twitterpate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 12:18:27 PM
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You've made an excellent start, Maximprime. This made me laugh out loud: quote:
I have a new theory - Anakin is an idiot savant. Great in the force, but otherwise bordering profoundly retarded. Either that, or he's been sniffing glue.
From a practical standpoint, I'm glad to see you allow your readers to increase text size (these old eyes aren't what they used to be, dadgummit...). A lot of websites seem determined to force me to read them with a magnifier, or not at all. |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 08:50:46 AM
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I didn't know I could make people view things with a particular size font (For all my computer savvy and use, this is the first time I've done anything on the web).
Hm.....
And I'm working on part 2 of the list.
It's funny, but the line you picked was also my theory about Napoleon Dynamite. I liked the movie, but my brothers insist its supposed to be a normal school. My theory was that Napoleons school was a 'special' school (which explains the girl selling jewelry, Napoleon, the fact Pedro's about 40...)
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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Representing Labor
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
62 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 12:30:35 PM
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quote:
The clones, who were implied in II to be almost 'programmed', are indicated to have individuality in the games/books (which are canon) and the first half of III, then at the mention of 'code 66' or whatever it was, become remorseless killing machines
Canon or not, George Lucas clearly doesn't care about the continuity and plot elements introduced in books and video games (that is, assuming he's even aware of them, which he probably isn't). Internal logic would dictate that if you got the impression that the clones were presented as 'programmed' in Episode 2, that they would also be 'programmed' in Episode 3.
As for your comments on Vader's transformation from a human to a cyborg, the lava duel was part of Star Wars lore since the release of Star Wars book adaptation. Do you have any evidence that a gradual transformation was suggested in the original trilogy?
Concerning the merits of the sudden transformation over a gradual one, I'd like to quote Empire Magazine's Episode III interpritation:
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"Track Darth Vader in A New Hope, post-Sith, and it is suddenly striking that he is second fiddle to a mere bureaucrat. He is Moff Tarkin's flunky.
Thanks to Tarkin's death, he comes to the fore in The Empire Strikes Back, but contrast his position as the Emperor's bitch--breaking off pursuit of the Falcon to take a phone call--with Palpatine's promise to Yoda that his new apprentice will become more powerful than either of them.
Palpatine's prediction was not be. Why? Because of those pesky midi-chlorians we all laughed at in 1999. As Obi-Wan reminds Luke in Return of the Jedi, Vader is "more machine now than man" -- his ability to commune with the Force severely restricted by the limbs he left in the lava.
Watch him seduce Luke on the gantry again--the shocking line is now not, "I am your father," but, "Join me." The father is literally out on a limb, beggin the son--he knows that the Sith tend to travel in twos and, with a younger model now on the market, the Emperor is about to go Skywalker shopping.
If Sith shifts our perspective on Vader as all-powerful villian, it transforms our emotional investment in his redemption--a trick that in turn performs restorative wonders on the reputation of Episode IV."
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It goes on, but there's clearly story-telling benefits to handicapping Vader totally in episode III rather than stretching it out over the period between episodes III and IV.
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 9:35:29 PM
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I liked Ep. 3, but you are dead on about the weaknesses of the movie.
- General Grevious was the Snidely Whiplash of the Star Wars universe: he had a great design, but he was just too EEEEE-vil to be taken seriously.
- Anakin goes, "I'm having lots of concerns and problems that I need help with." Yoda / the rest of the senior jedis reply with a "stop whining, biatch!"-style reply that makes them look very insensitive. If only they'd stop to help Anakin through his angst, things would have turned out differently .
- Also, I contend that if people had stopped calling Anakin "Annie", he also may not have turned to the dark side.
- Yoda's "well, I lost once, so off I go" had me in stitches. What a great Jedi master - one defeat and he quits, abandons his post and leaves the galaxy to suffer at the hands of tyrants.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2005 : 03:51:11 AM
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A few things that I take issue with:
quote:
The vaccum of space must not be that bad... And Grievous, who's organs just dangle off of him, is in great shape.
Why shouldn't he be? He's not outside of the ship long enough to asphyxiate; heck, we don't even know what the guy breathes or how often he needs to.
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The Republic is becoming a dictatorship with him the sole leader - and they STILL have no clue?
Their powers have been almost crippled by him and he's a master of a society that has managed to hide itself for a thousand years. Not to mention, sure, they don't trust him, but they're too arrogant to ever think that their enemy might be that close to them.
quote:
Speaking of Anakins eventual butt-whooping, why doesn't he use the Force to pull to safety?
We've never seen them use that ability for one thing; plus having his arm and legs cut off obviously impaired his ability to use the Force seeing as how he caught on fire shortly thereafter.
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"Lost I did, into exile I go" Fricking coward. He almost won! Just go back with a couple of people!
And this time encounter a Sith Master backed up by thousands of Clone Troopers? He had a narrow window of opportunity to kill him and missed it.
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That is, without a doubt, the dumbest thing so far. I now think the Force is balancing itself by having the good Jedi degenerate into morons
Why is it stupid exactly?
Why shouldn't an intergalactic agency maintain a way of contacting it's various members? How is it any different than sending out an email to all employees?
And as far as the Force balancing itself out goes, that's pretty much exactly what happened.
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Yet, if someone wipes out all the guards, no one ever goes to follow up, giving ObiWan and YodaTheCoward plenty of time to wander around, change the signal, and watch some home movies
If you'll notice, their attack on the Temple occured during Palpatine's little speech with Yoda moving on Sidious shortly after. Most of the troops would have been at the Senate.
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How the hell else do you explain that Palpatine doesn't notice the 1 Bazillion watt boombox thirty seconds from his office?
He did notice, hence the fake SOS. Or are you talking about the signal being changed? If he was totally unaware of that, then why did he seem utterly unsurprised when Yoda walked in the room?
quote:
They obviously have a hidden camera in Palpatines office, and yet never found out he was a Sith Lord? He did all his Sith crap in his office!
It's been a while, but I'm all but certain that the dialogue in the two sequences is completely different and, as such, the sequence Obi-Wan and Yoda watched was actually set at the Temple later on, not in Palpatine's office.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 8:07:45 PM
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Good points...here's my responses:
Representing Labor:
-I don't know about now, but until recently (up until West End Games lost the StarWars License for RPGs) ANYTHING that came out with the Star Wars logo had to be approved by Lucas. Originally, it had to be approved by him, but as the franchise grew there was a committee that everything had to be passed through. That's why small companies, like West End or Dark Horse, were able to garner such popularity (in part). In recent interviews, though, Lucas has implied that if it isn't in his movies or Clone Wars, it isn't official. This is also, by the way, why everyone flipped when Chewbacca died in one of the more recent novels - because it was canon according George the Hutt.
-Gradual transformation: I'll concede; its been a loooooong time since I've seen the trilogy, and to be honest I couldn't pinpoint exactly where it came from. If it was from Comics/RPG's, then yes - its not canon now. If it was from the trilogy, when I watch it again, if I see something I'll let you know.
Ubiq:
-For Grievous in the vacuum, I wasn't really concerned with the breathing as I was for freezer burn on his organs. As it shows in the big fight at the end, his vitals are just dangling, shielded by some sheets of metal. Definitely not airtight. So, I'd imagine vacuum is bad for the kidneys or so.
-I wouldn't call the Sith a society; after their great defeat when they all fell on each other, they are limited to two; master and apprentice. Those up and comers are whacked by the incumbents until they get old, weak, or one betrays the other. It's less a society, I think, and more like a Hatfield vs. McCoy bloodfeud kinda thing. And I concede totally that it was arrogance, but it still doesn't make them look very bright.
-For using the Force to drag yourself around - in Ep.1 ObiWan uses the force to flip himself up from hanging on a ledge. In 3, according to the novelization (my brother threw this at me after seeing my website) it indicates that the reason ObiWan can move around after being KOed is by using the force to move himself. Palpatine uses the force to twirl like a ballerina at Samuel L Jackson. There are multiple instances of Jedi whipping huge objects around. So if the force can be used to do that, why not slide your sorry butt up a few feet? Or fling Obi Wan into the lava? Or have something slide under him? Anakin is the Jedi Messiah, so if they could do it so could he.
-I agree with you. Palpatine looked just as beaten (though quite nutty). But I think he gave up too early. Even conceding that, the Republic needs him, and he's the only powerful Jedi left alive. Exile is cowardly and makes him look bad. Hiding, yes. Hanging with Organa, ok. Now, I know that he HAS to go into exile because thats how Luke finds him, but I always thought it would have been from a more severe beating (ex, he's beaten to a milimeter of death, and is nursed to health for months, waking only long after its too late to do anything)
-The second the signal changed, clones should have been on them like white on rice. And even my brother said much like you did, but I can't shake the feeling that the whole thing with the Uber Beacon sounds kinda hokey. Maybe its because, like most of the movie, it looks like most was done on first take, like Lucas didn't care to polish it up. 1 & 2 sucked horribly, but at least they had a sense that someone cared. Maybe if it was better presented, it wouldn't have come off like a gargantuan Deus Ex Machina.
-Palpatine wouldn't have had to know about the signal changing. The most powerful Jedi marching to the most powerful Sith? I'm sure he sensed him. Plus, a green muppet wandering the senate halls, knocking people unconcious probably sets up flags. I'd also hazard that Palpatine was expecting him because (and I'm cutting Lucas slack 'cause he sure as hell made little effort) he'd been playing everyone like a fiddle. He probably expected Yoda to be one of the few survivors, and to go after him.
-As far as the signal goes, I've had a few people tell me the dialog was different. Since I have no intention on watching this turd of a film again (at least, not until the inevitable remastered edition) I will concede. I suggest, though, that while I'd expect Palpatine to gloat (he did, after all, do what the Sith had been trying for centuries) I would've thought he'd do more than walk in, go 'Bless you my son', and run out. Instead, the footage looked like after they filmed Anakin pledging himself, someone yelled 'Take 2' and shot it from a different angle.
I've been a lurker on the board because, while I love genre films (which most are, by nature, largely cheese) most of what pops up here I wouldn't have much interest in seeing (or, I feel safer using Ken and the rest of you as royal food tasters and just reading the results!)
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 2:07:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Matrixprime
Ubiq:
-For Grievous in the vacuum, I wasn't really concerned with the breathing as I was for freezer burn on his organs. As it shows in the big fight at the end, his vitals are just dangling, shielded by some sheets of metal. Definitely not airtight. So, I'd imagine vacuum is bad for the kidneys or so.
No longer than he was out there, it shouldn't really be a problem. Considering that he didn't die instantly when Obi-Wan shot him later on, his organs are apparently pretty sturdy anyway.
quote:
-I wouldn't call the Sith a society; after their great defeat when they all fell on each other, they are limited to two; master and apprentice.
I meant society more in the "exclusive club" sense more than the culture sense. At any rate, they successfully hid their existence from the Jedi for a thousand years.
Also, back in the first film, we saw Obi-Wan running around, apparently oblivious to the fact that Vader was following him. So it may well be that the Sith can sense Jedi without it being a two-way street.
quote:
So if the force can be used to do that, why not slide your sorry butt up a few feet? Or fling Obi Wan into the lava? Or have something slide under him? Anakin is the Jedi Messiah, so if they could do it so could he.
I don't doubt that he could have done so, under normal circumstances. Using the Force requires concentration and I think losing several limbs falls under the category of things that might make it hard for you to concentrate on anything other than blinding pain. Somebody more fully trained in using the Dark Side might have been able to work around this, but Anakin was just turned.
quote:
(ex, he's beaten to a milimeter of death, and is nursed to health for months, waking only long after its too late to do anything)
But he missed that narrow window of opportunity that they had to do it in. Sidious is now aware of how close he came to losing and will not allow Yoda a second chance to get so close to him alone.
Yoda felt their best chance lie with surprise, though it didn't seem that Palpatine was the least bit surprised when he showed up.
quote:
The second the signal changed, clones should have been on them like white on rice. And even my brother said much like you did, but I can't shake the feeling that the whole thing with the Uber Beacon sounds kinda hokey.
And I can't shake the feeling that you're just looking for something to complain about and seized on something fairly innocous. The movie had its flaws, but I don't think the Jedi being able to contact their various members across the galaxy is a problem, especially seeing as how we see the Council do just that numerous times throughout the last two films.
quote:
Palpatine wouldn't have had to know about the signal changing. The most powerful Jedi marching to the most powerful Sith? I'm sure he sensed him.
Probably, but I doubt Yoda just walked right up without making the least attempt to hide his approach from others. Obi-Wan managed to run around the Death Star without anybody but Vader noticing, so Yoda should be able to run around Palpatine's office building.
quote:
I suggest, though, that while I'd expect Palpatine to gloat (he did, after all, do what the Sith had been trying for centuries) I would've thought he'd do more than walk in, go 'Bless you my son', and run out.
Well, that was simply the portion of the tape that had Palpatine speaking with Vader; there's no telling from that just how long he was there before and there after the sequence was filmed.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 3:29:43 PM
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quote:
In 3, according to the novelization (my brother threw this at me after seeing my website) it indicates that the reason ObiWan can move around after being KOed is by using the force to move himself.
Great, now explane that to me!
I suggest that certain people obtain a copy of the old Steve Jackson Games book, "Murphy's Rules" which is about some of the more insane rule in role playing games.
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 1:17:34 PM
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From Ubiq:
And I can't shake the feeling that you're just looking for something to complain about and seized on something fairly innocous. The movie had its flaws, but I don't think the Jedi being able to contact their various members across the galaxy is a problem, especially seeing as how we see the Council do just that numerous times throughout the last two films.
-------------------
To a point, you may be right, but not as you might think. I rented the movie figuring I would enjoy it. It was already pretty much written (as a movie in the middle, more or less) and I'd only heard good things about it. Plus, the trailers looked great. I just waited for it to come on DVD because I had paid to see the first two, and I had a free rental.
But from the first scene, the movie struck me as 'rough cut'. Many of my complaints were ones that could've been easily circumvented if someone had just thought for a few seconds, or added a bit more dialogue. For example:
-Freezer burn on the organs? Perhaps a forcefield is around them. Or they're artificial too. Or a few seconds of CGI showing plating folding out and around them.
-a line or two of dialog about not being able to sense Jedi. Say, Windu saying to Yoda 'Damn it! it's like an itch you can't scratch! you can sense the corruption, but not the source'
Just things like that. Honestly, though, you may be right about the Beacon. I don't know WHY it rubs me so wrong, but it does.
Green Hornet:
I have that book you mentioned, found it in a used book store. Funny stuff.
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 2:07:12 PM
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Saw R of the S last night...look, i'm cheap, and my taxes paid for the library copy...and i gotta say...
Mindboggeling FX, intresting work with the seduction to the dark side, and yet, there is room for "Excuse me, but..."
BTW...Obi-Wan offs Grevious with a blaster, and then disses it....hey, it saved yer life, mr " I can't call my saber back to me"!Jedi/Sith are NOT nessarily Blaster proof!
Sheesh!
"Reality is arguable...lunch time is not." H. Flangepart.
"One Weekend a month my ass!" Crow- The Beginning of the End.
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Representing Labor
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
62 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 8:36:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Matrixprime
-a line or two of dialog about not being able to sense Jedi. Say, Windu saying to Yoda 'Damn it! it's like an itch you can't scratch! you can sense the corruption, but not the source'
Yoda mentions in Attack of the Clones that the Jedis' ability to sense the force has diminished because of the growing presence of the dark side.
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 12:04:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Matrixprime
But from the first scene, the movie struck me as 'rough cut'. Many of my complaints were ones that could've been easily circumvented if someone had just thought for a few seconds, or added a bit more dialogue. For example:
There are some things like that; the Buzz droids for instance. Maybe if they had been released as a swarm by a ship they might have made since, but as an anti-starfighter missle?
It's an interesting concept that just doesn't work that well as depicted.
Why not have it where the Seperatists were using the droids against a large ship to tear up armor and weapons and Anakin/Obi-Wan just accidentally flew through the swarm when they passed too close to the ship that was being attacked?
quote:
-Freezer burn on the organs? ... Or a few seconds of CGI showing plating folding out and around them.
I think they're just tough actually; it took a couple of shots from the blaster to incinerate his organs.
quote:
-a line or two of dialog about not being able to sense Jedi. Say, Windu saying to Yoda 'Damn it! it's like an itch you can't scratch! you can sense the corruption, but not the source'
I haven't seen it since it came out on DVD, but I'm pretty sure that there are a few lines in there about how their ability to use the Force is diminished.
quote:
Originally posted by Flangepart
BTW...Obi-Wan offs Grevious with a blaster, and then disses it....hey, it saved yer life, mr " I can't call my saber back to me"! Jedi/Sith are NOT nessarily Blaster proof!
Sheesh!
See, I actually thought that was a nice touch myself.
Grievous died what was probably the more violent death by any character in the series and it's pretty obvious that the guy suffered in the process. Nowhere near as quick and relatively painless as being cut through with a lightsaber.
It's a subtle tie-in with the line in Star Wars about how elegant lightsabers are in comparison to blasters.
Something else I found interesting was the whole exchange between Yoda and Anakin about fate. Yoda pretty much told him that life sucks and that he should accept it, but when Luke came around and a similar situation arose, Yoda tried a different tact altogether. It's the little things that like that made Revenge of the Sith so much more like the first three films than the other two prequels.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
Edited by - Ubiq on 11/12/2005 12:09:18 AM |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 10:27:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ubiq
Grievous died what was probably the more violent death by any character in the series and it's pretty obvious that the guy suffered in the process. Nowhere near as quick and relatively painless as being cut through with a lightsaber.
Nothing against your oppinion, but I just don't see how "being cut through with a lightsaber" is any LESS violent than getting shot wit a laser. But then, I can't understand how people (Cartoon makers espesialy) can think that getting shot with a laser is less violent than getting shot by a .38 special revolver. It must be the rather UNFORTUNATE line from Star Trek: "Set phasers to stun".
quote:
It's a subtle tie-in with the line in Star Wars about how elegant lightsabers are in comparison to blasters.
I recall hearing that "clumsy and random" line in the theater and thinking "You've never seen a rifleman pop a machinegunner at 250 yards while under fire, have you?" (I haven't either, but still...)
Personaly, I prefer Toshiro Mafuni's line from "Red Sun" when he stared down the barrel of a .45: "Gun. Sword. It's all the same."
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 11:45:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Greenhornet
Nothing against your oppinion, but I just don't see how "being cut through with a lightsaber" is any LESS violent than getting shot wit a laser. But then, I can't understand how people (Cartoon makers espesialy) can think that getting shot with a laser is less violent than getting shot by a .38 special revolver. It must be the rather UNFORTUNATE line from Star Trek: "Set phasers to stun".
Well, under normal circumstances, it isn't. A lightsaber kills them so quickly that they don't seem to feel pain (some of the people that Luke kills in Return of the Jedi actually move forward a bit before they drop dead after being bisected), but so does a blaster under normal circumstances.
Grievous, on the other hand, had his internal organs incinerated and was pretty obviously in pain during the entire thing. His cyborg nature kept him alive far longer than a normal person would have been; he apparently even felt his eyes being burned out from the inside of his skull.
quote:
thinking "You've never seen a rifleman pop a machinegunner at 250 yards while under fire, have you?" (I haven't either, but still...)
I think that his point was more that it took a refined skill to use a lightsaber correctly, while just about anybody could use a blaster. Considering how he later pointed how precise the shots were that destroyed the Sandcrawler, he may well have been saying stuff like that just to impress Luke.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
Edited by - Ubiq on 11/13/2005 12:07:48 AM |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 10:56:47 AM
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I agree with MiFuni. Both tools take skill to use.
People think useing a gun is "Easy". Hah! Ever watch the G.I.s in Band of Brothers or Saveing Pvt. Ryan lay down covering fire? Its not easy just to do that, when your enemys have first crack at you.
And lets also remember...we don't actualy see total bisections in most saber battles.
Oh...and aginst 4 sabres,when faceing Grevious, how did Obi-wan survive? Just asking...i mean, concitering the odds...
Lightsaber/blaster...you still have to HIT your target, Obi.
"Reality is arguable...lunch time is not." H. Flangepart.
"One Weekend a month my ass!" Crow- The Beginning of the End.
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