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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2006 : 02:13:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Irony, meet Neville.
You missed my point, Nev. I'm not demanding that Sean Penn be forced to apologize for his dad. What I'm saying is, if Leo Penn is entitled to his own beliefs, why isn't Gibson's father? Columbia Pictures exec Amy Pascal has publicly stated her studio will no longer work with Mel Gibson, all because of this flap as well as her objection to The Passion.
D'oh! Missed that, sorry. Still, and while I found the harassment against the Gibson family quite pointless, I don't think a person whose only crime was to attend a pro-union meeting (source: Wikipedia) is comparable to another who denies the Holocaust ever took place. |
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 04:49:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
quote:
Originally posted by Culfy
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, it was the ENGLISH who got demonised in Braveheart, the ENGLISH! (The Scots are also British!). And a lot of people have complained about the anti-English bias displayed by Gibson and screenwriter Randal Wallace.
Okay, fine, the English. Anyway, maybe in the UK there were complaints over Braveheart, but not here in the US. That's what I meant to say.
By the way, Culfy, great Rambo impersonation there. Now do Rocky.
"What's the matter with my house? My house stink? THAT'S RIGHT! IT STINKS! "
Well, probably not so much complaints as mutterings about rewriting of history to make the english look bad. Sorry, you just set off one of my flashbacks of a pet hate of people confusing british with english (there is no such thing as a British accent, Hugh Grant does not sound remotely like Groundskeeper Willie - but then most English people can't tell the difference between American and Canadian so I suppose it's fair enough)
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:49:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Culfy
Sorry, you just set off one of my flashbacks of a pet hate of people confusing british with english (there is no such thing as a British accent, Hugh Grant does not sound remotely like Groundskeeper Willie - but then most English people can't tell the difference between American and Canadian so I suppose it's fair enough)
There is a difference? |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 12:17:01 PM
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Well, I guess I should come clean as well and mention that most of the time* I can't identify English variations. It always amazes me when you mention a certain actor didn't get the accent right, because I can't even notice it 90% of the time.
* I can tell apart an Englishman from an American, but only if the Englishman quotes Shakespeare and the American impersonates Donald duck, so not all is lost.
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 12:20:11 PM
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| Oh, and as far as NY or Australian accents, I'm still trying to decide if what Robert DeNiro or Paul Hogan speaks is even English. Ditto on all Irish people, although my Dublinese brother in law tries his best to sound likea BBC anchorman when he speaks to me. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 3:47:09 PM
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Although there are slight variations between American and Canadian accents, a better parallel to the Hugh Grant/Groundskeeper Willie comparison might be U.S. southern dialects (Gomer Pyle, to those in the know) versus, oh, let's say your average American TV anchor man.
By the way, and we're way OT by now, those of you in the UK, have you ever heard an American actor or actress do a convincing UK accent? A movie like Black Hawk Down was a great example of English, Scottish, Aussie, and New Zealand actors all doing convincing American impersonations, but how often has the reverse ever been true? |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 4:15:47 PM
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| My sister, who lives in Ireland and therefore hears a varity of accents everyday, told me that Gwyneth Paltrow made concincing English accent in Emma |
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KurtVon
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 4:32:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Although there are slight variations between American and Canadian accents,
It depends where the Canadian is from. I have a few friends from Saskatchewan, and their accent is pretty indistinguishable from teh Midwestern accent used by most actors. Sometimes I hear a little bit of a Minnesota twang, but nothing specifically Canadian.
The whole "Eh" thing Canadians are suposed to be famous for really sems to be mostly a Toronto area thing. Kind of like Amercians potrayed in British shows always sound like they have an LA or NYC accent.
quote:
By the way, and we're way OT by now, those of you in the UK, have you ever heard an American actor or actress do a convincing UK accent?
Hmm. I suspect the Australians have an advantage with this kind of complaint because the accent there is almost universal and uniform. Compared to England of the US where accents can very pretty severely in a region. Most people can easily hear the difference between Fran Drescher (Flushing accent) and George Segal (North Shore accent) even though it's a three minute drive to Great Neck from Flushing.
So if someone is aiming for a Brooklyn accent and misses, it's pretty easy to imagine the accent is from west brookly, or they went to school across the border in Rockaway. It makes people much more forgiving about attempts at a particular accent. I suspect the same is true in England.
It's also funny that a woman who goes to our church is from London (her father is the minister at the Tower of London) and her daughter, born here in America, speaks with an accent only when talking to her mother. It's a bit like children growing in a bilingual hosehold, but just with accents.
Always makes me chuckle when she goes "Cehn Caire an' I have a playdate? I'll ask my mahm. Muthah, may I heff a play-date with Cleha?"
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 4:47:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
A movie like Black Hawk Down was a great example of English, Scottish, Aussie, and New Zealand actors all doing convincing American impersonations, but how often has the reverse ever been true?
Back in the day, Meryl Streep was universally hailed as being able to take on any accent in the world absolutely seamlessly. I'll leave it to the Brits that posted here as to whether that was just hype or not. |
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 6:36:51 PM
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Sorry, didn't mean to derail things here. I've never actually heard Meryl Streep do an english accent so I couldn't judge. Gwyneth Paltrow's was pretty flawless and Renee Zellweger's wasn't bad either.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 7:26:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
By the way, and we're way OT by now, those of you in the UK, have you ever heard an American actor or actress do a convincing UK accent? A movie like Black Hawk Down was a great example of English, Scottish, Aussie, and New Zealand actors all doing convincing American impersonations, but how often has the reverse ever been true?
Australia does have some internal variations of accents - in most cases it's the degree that people have a nasal strine in their voice and how lazy they are with their vowel sounds.
The two greatest examples of US actors trying to do Australian accents are "The Simpsons" Australian episode and the flashbacks in "Lost". We laugh and laugh as South African, Russian, New Zealand and sometimes even a hint of a Canadian accent appear in place of what is meant to be 'Australian'.
The issue with US actors doing Australian accents is that they either 1) go for the stereotype (eg "G'day mate! You'd be a flaming drongo not to give me a fair suck of the sauce bottle"*) which grates, or 2) they just speak through their nose. On the other hand, to get work in the US Australians HAVE to sound convincing to play US characters, so they have to work a bit harder. Plus, we get bombarded with enough US shows to get some idea of how you guys speak, while "The Crocodile Hunter" isn't a good representation of how a normal Australian speaks ;-)
Finally... so, how about that "MI:3" movie, hey?
*Translation: "Hello, you'd be foolish not to give me an equal chance on this"
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - December is Bibleman-o-rama Month thanks to Heckler King! |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 8:57:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
By the way, and we're way OT by now, those of you in the UK, have you ever heard an American actor or actress do a convincing UK accent? A movie like Black Hawk Down was a great example of English, Scottish, Aussie, and New Zealand actors all doing convincing American impersonations, but how often has the reverse ever been true?
Just to give a big thumbs up to an Englishman (Oxford is English, not British, right!), I was very surprised by Hugh Laurie:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0491402/
I became a big fan of "House, M.D." on Fox after watching the first season on video. His American accent is so flawless, I only accidentally became aware of his UK-ness after watching a video extra. |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 9:19:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Culfy
The problem with the portrayal of Edward II in the film is that it makes out that it was his homosexuality that was the problem; in actual fact, at that time, it wouldn't have been a particular problem for a monarch to be gay (it didn't cause Richard the Lionheart any problems). The problem was that he was seen as a weak king in thrall of favourites such as Gaveston. However the film makes much more of his homosexuality (including snide references to him being unable to have children by his wife)
Culfy,
This is an interesting historical question given this biography at the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_II_of_England
The requisite cautions about Wikipedia conceded, if some of the facts mentioned here are accurate is there really any reason to believe that he was gay given the fact that between his wife and mistress he sired several children?
For that matter, how solid is the evidence that Richard the Lionhearted was gay? I've heard this before as well, but why does anyone believe it? I could be all smirky and Seinfeldian and say "There's not anything wrong with that", but I've always had a larger question as to how much we can say about the sex lives of people who lived 700+ years ago - were they gay or straight.
By all means don't take this as a personal dig, because if anything it's a dig against Gibson (or his screenwriter) for buying in to pure speculation. |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 06:46:18 AM
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"Oh, and as far as NY or Australian accents, I'm still trying to decide if what Robert DeNiro or Paul Hogan speaks is even English. Ditto on all Irish people, although my Dublinese brother in law tries his best to sound likea BBC anchorman when he speaks to me."
That's funny. I have a New York accent but on a visit to Manchester, England people there thought I was Irish. It must be because both New Yorkers and Irish speak fast other than that though I can't see how they could have conflated the two.
"Politics is like a pond, the scum rises to the top." - Bob Black |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 06:56:18 AM
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Hmm, well just call me James Frey. I exagerated a bit on my last post. I should have said that some people in Manchester thought I was Irish not the people there in general.
"Politics is like a pond, the scum rises to the top." - Bob Black |
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