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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2006 : 10:27:48 PM
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Oh yeah, Brokeback Mountain.
Was I the only one to come away from it with no strong feelings either way? I wasn't crazy about the gay sex stuff, but didn't find it off-putting either. Even Priscilla, Queen of the Desert in all its camp and sartorial excess struck me as a more poignant story about gay men and their lives, problems, etc.
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Boards don't hit back.
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TheKusabiBringsThePain
Altar Boy of Jabootu
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 02:03:03 AM
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A well-promoted, Hollywood production about Hiss, or the Rosenbergs, or anybody else already mentioned, would however, be out of the question. I figure McCarthy is now nothing more than a convenient excuse for Hollywoodites to wriggle out of coming clean about the real situation at the time. I base this conclusion on the fact that no-one seems able to explain why it's right that McCarthy's antics should be allowed to overshadow what the Commies were up to.
I'd like to conclude by saying that backing up what you say takes character. Not running away when challenged, and hiding behind blather about pro-wrestling. It smacks of someone who doesn't himself believe what he says.
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Originally posted by tam1MI
quote:
Originally posted by TheKusabiBringsThePain
For example, if someone in Hollywood were to propose making a movie about the activities of Alger Hiss, would it be squelched on the grounds that it justified McCarthy's so-called 'witchhunt'?
Actually, some years ago there was a very fine, balanced miniseries made about the Alger Hiss case called "Concealed Enemies". (You can find the IMDB entry for it here: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0087079/). It subsequently won two Emmys.
The Repentance will come. |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 04:12:26 AM
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I said that was I wrote was me venting, that I was out of line, and that I was just going to take myself out of the discussion - and you continued to attack. I pretty much repeated my apology, took blame for my own overreaction, and made an analogy about the volatility of political debates being like pro wrestling and you're still so hellbent to get some shots in (not exactly proving me analogy wrong in the process) that you insinuate that I'm a coward and proceed to question my integrity. Forget politics; you've decided that you must make things personal. Inability to back-off even after someone has apologized is proof of a lack of character. Get over yourself already and stop being a dick.
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TheKusabiBringsThePain
Altar Boy of Jabootu
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 09:52:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
I said that was I wrote was me venting, that I was out of line, and that I was just going to take myself out of the discussion - and you continued to attack.
Venting? Overreaction? Is that your way of saying that what you posted about anti-communism being tainted by McCarthy was worthless? If so, why not just say that? While we're at it, tell me if I'm wrong about McCarthy not being an good enough reason to not make Hollywood commie movies. Is it or isn't it?
Also, when you say you feel attacked, do you feel attacked by being asked to elaborate on what you'd said before, or even answer questions? Because, you really shouldn't.
The Repentance will come. |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 1:57:33 PM
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When someone says that they're just going to take themselves out of the discussion and people keep on harping on that person to keep arguing it's kind of hard not to feel attacked.
But to clarify one thing, I don't know too many people, anyone actually, that denies there being any Communist spies at work. That said, McCarthy and the committee have put a permanent taint on the era as it is the most visible identifier of the Red Scare era. As much as you might think McCarthy isn't worthy of filmdom but the truth is that he represents one of the ugliest times in American history. Commies may have been lurking in the shadows but McCarthy was front and center destroying lives with impunity in the name of national defense. Like it or not, he's the face of the era. You can blame Hollywood, you can blame the media, but that is the reality and, like I said, history has already been written. Doesn't erase the fact that there were actual Communists at work but it doesn't change the fact that the more visible threat ended up being one of our own.
And yes, Hollywood was a prime target and we all know Hollywood likes to make movies about itself - no secret there. There have been some great films about the topic. There have been some terrible films about the topic. Ironic that nobody except me has listed THE MAJESTIC amongst the McCarthy films since it would be a film more befitting your scorn (Carrey's big speech before the committee at the end is one of the most nauseatingly inane things ever done on the topic) than GOOD NIGHT & GOOD LUCK, a film that's overall theme is about journalism; hence the fact that the film both opens and closes with speeches about the topic.
And if anyone ever doubts my analogy about political discussions these days being the equivilent of pro wrestling then just have a look at this link:
quote:
http://www.kaijushakedown.com/2006/02/they_told_me_th.html
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TheKusabiBringsThePain
Altar Boy of Jabootu
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 10:15:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
That said, McCarthy and the committee have put a permanent taint on the era as it is the most visible identifier of the Red Scare era.
And if Hollywood dared make to honest movies about what was actually happening at the time, that would change. For instance, if someone made a movie about the Rosenbergs passing secrets of the Atom Bomb to Moscow, you think that wouldn't make an impact? After all, it's not all about McCarthy.
The real question here is, if you happen to think the way anti-Communism is commonly portrayed in popular media shouldn't change, why not?
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Originally posted by TheFoywonder
Like it or not, he's the face of the era. You can blame Hollywood, you can blame the media, but that is the reality and, like I said, history has already been written.
If the history according to Hollywood, and the popular perception that those in Hollywood do in some part create, holds that there were no Communist agents operating in the West - which is not true - then the history that you assert 'has already been written' is severly flawed and is in need of amending. Would you agree, or disagree, with that assessment?
The Repentance will come. |
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Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
904 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 12:07:11 PM
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The thing about the "Anti-Communism = McCarthy = Bad" is that these messages are not just in movies and TV shows that are specifically about the issue; when one just only mentions movies that scream out "We've got a political statement to make here!", then it may not seem like there are many movies/tv shows out there with this point of view.
Just watched NEXT STOP GREENWICH VILLAGE, a movie takes place in 1953, the main character (based on the director of the flick)movies out of his parents house to persue a life in showbiz. There is a scene in a diner where someone walks in while saying to another (something like):"What they did to the Rosenbergs, it was wrong..." that's the only direct political reference taht stands out in the movie (that I can think of). This kind of thing has popped up all over the place -- a comment here and there, multiplied by thousands of movies and TV shows; this almost subliminally(sp?)plants the belief "Communism, a threat? Ridiculous!" in the public's mind.
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 1:07:02 PM
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You keep going on about the Rosenbergs. A film about them has been in development for over decade so it's not like Hollywood is actively avoiding the subject.
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Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
904 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 4:20:17 PM
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I'm certainly not "going on" about the Rosenbergs -- I mentioned them because that was a reference in NEXT STOP GREENWICH VILLAGE. Of course it would be very interesting to see what spin would be given to the Rosenberg story in a Hollywood flick -- A decade in developement? Maybe they're trying to figure out a way to present them as the greatest heroes of the 20th Century.
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 5:18:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobby-G
I'm certainly not "going on" about the Rosenbergs -- I mentioned them because that was a reference in NEXT STOP GREENWICH VILLAGE. Of course it would be very interesting to see what spin would be given to the Rosenberg story in a Hollywood flick -- A decade in developement? Maybe they're trying to figure out a way to present them as the greatest heroes of the 20th Century.
Rob
I thought that was Alger Hiss...? ;)
On a more general note - and this is not about Senator Youknowwho, so I am keeping my word given earlier to table that topic - it's been said that the American Right and Left both had their respective blind spots regarding 20th century Commies...
The Right saw Commies behind every tree and was tone-deaf to the real social and political injustices that made Communism so appealing to many suffering and oppressed people.
The Left, on the other hand, bent over backwards to avoid noticing just what all that rhetoric about workers and peasants and liberation actually resulted in once the Reds took over a country.
Many on the Left spent the decades from the October Revolution right up until the whole thing collapsed in late '80s hoping against hope that the USSR or some other Red State (heh heh) would incubate the long-awaited socialist utopia and lead humanity into a new and better age.
Marxist Communism is a remarkably "religious" ideology in this way, and those Americans who went beyond hoping and decided to lend a hand - Hiss, Fuchs, Rosenbergs, etc. - were not villains; they were True Believers. They honestly thought they were on the right side of history and human morality. (All the same, this doesn't excuse treason or change the propriety of their punishments.)
Nothing dies as hard as a wish, and it should come as no surprise that many on the Left (in Hollywood and elsewhere) were, and are, loathe to consciously and publicly confront the fact that the Bolsheviks and Maoists took them for a ride, used them and made a mockery of their democratic, egalitarian and emancipatory ideals.
That's why l'affaire Rosenberg is still so touchy for some. It's bad enough to have to admit that they WERE spies, after all, but to also acknowledge that they were naive stooges of a horrible police state is just more than some people can bear...
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee) |
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TheKusabiBringsThePain
Altar Boy of Jabootu
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 01:07:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
You keep going on about the Rosenbergs. A film about them has been in development for over decade so it's not like Hollywood is actively avoiding the subject.
Title? Studio? Writers?
The Repentance will come. |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 02:27:18 AM
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I don't recall. Like I said, it's been in development hell for years. Haven't heard anything about it in a long time.
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 12:08:53 PM
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If only Uwe Boll could do it...
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee) |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 12:18:43 PM
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With Angelina Jolie and Colin Farrel as the Rosenbergs.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Dirk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 2:53:55 PM
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| And Vince Vaughn as Roy Cohn - a ZANY Roy Cohn! |
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