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Tork_110
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
360 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2006 : 1:53:12 PM
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| Further proof that Lucas was kidnapped by Blofeld! It's just like the plot from Diamonds Are Forever. |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 3:26:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
...I'm starting to think it IS all divorce settlements that are driving these decisions.
I doubt if that's the only reason, but I'll bet it's a big one. And probably not so much to spite his ex so much as to give himself and his company a bigger cut by not paying her share and whoever else's share is linked to the original version only. |
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Kooshmeister
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 2:49:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WinterHarvest
[quote] Part 1 - Mannikin skywalker, midoclorians, and "messa here to sell coloring books", saw the Big Race....is he really doing Ben Hur? Said this was going to be in the arcade soon....took a month. And Ben Kenobi left just Shmi behind.... When I next see part 4 I will cheer when Vader kills Ben...it's the most justifiable homicide in cinematic history.
I personally thought Revenge of the Sith was the worst, due to the fact Attack of the Clones was such a plodding piece of junk. Watching AOTC I get this feeling like Lucas actually forgot he was doing a prequel movie, and avoided doing hardly anything to connect it to the original trilogy, instead delving into stuff that he'd quickly discard once he got to ROTS and realized, oops, he had only one more movie in which to tie the two trilogies together. ROTS, as a result, suffers because 1) the only plot points from AOTC that really made it into ROTS were the Clonetroopers and Anakin and Padme's romance (Everything else - Count Dooku, the Separatists, and the stuff about Sifo-Dyas - was either gotten rid of right out of the gate, treated as superficial, or forgotten about altogether), and 2) because Lucas is trying to cram in stuff he should have gotten out of the way in AOTC, while at the same time focusing on Anakin's transformation into Vader.
With that in mind, as much as people dislike it because it isn't as dark and serious as the other two films and because it introduced Jar Jar, The Phantom Menace is really the only film in the prequel trilogy that has a story. It may not be a good story, but there's little in it that isn't explained, and, unlike AOTC, what isn't actually does get explained further down the line (namely why Darth Sidious is so interested in bossing around the Trade Federation).
And incidentally, Obi-Wan did not abandon Shmi Skywalker on Tatooine. At that point he had no idea she even existed. It was Qui-Gon Jinn who decided to leave her behind, and he did not "abandon" her. The deal was for just Anakin. Besides, Watto isn't a cruel master; Qui-Gon wanted Anakin not to save him from a life of slavery, but to train him and hone his skills in the Force. Shmi, for her part, was eventually freed and her death was an indirect, unforseen result of Qui-Gon's decision not to just kill Watto. |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 3:38:44 PM
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| I had toyed with writing fanfic prequels and I got as far as having a rather nice story arc for them. i'm pretty sure almost anyone could write better prequels. |
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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 4:55:15 PM
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I think Star Wars, today, is more about merchandizing than storytelling. When the first film became a huge hit, it pretty much invented the movie-related spin-off business (I don’t recall any Jaws action figures, Sound of Music Colorform sets, or Godfather-themed Monopoly games). Disney may have done some of that, but nowhere near the same scale as Star Wars. (Each film since has upped the ante with new sets, vehicles, characters, and differently-costumed versions of the main characters--and resultant toy versions of same). I think it’s only natural, now, that the merchandising is what’s driving all the decisions at LucasFilm.
So, they’ll release the non-anamorphic versions of the original trilogy, then, a few years from now, they’ll do it properly and release them again (“newly discovered elements” maybe)—and the fans will buy them again. And it will happen again after that. It’s simple marketing, when stuff like this can be sold so readily by just stamping “Limited Edition! Limited Time Only!” on it. And I can’t really blame George Lucas for shooting fish in a barrel, not when its so profitable.
I mean, I really like the original Star Wars, but I don’t own a single piece of merchandise from it (or the sequels). I guess I’m not the target audience for any new DVDs.
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 6:51:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jackspencerjr
I had toyed with writing fanfic prequels and I got as far as having a rather nice story arc for them. i'm pretty sure almost anyone could write better prequels.
Jack, I'd be interested in hearing more. Would the story arc be too long to include here? E-mail, maybe? Hey, I considered writing my own scripts for Bloodrayne and Silent Hill, just to see if I could do better than the people who got paid to write 'em. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 10:11:26 PM
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I think you're all being a little too hard on Episode 3. There's no question in my mind it was the best of the new trilogy, even though it still fell short of what an "ideal" SW movie should be.
Considering the amount of gaffes Lucas piled on in Episodes 1 and 2, painting the series into a corner story logic-wise, I'm amazed that Episode 3 was as good as it was.
One example (among many):
In Episode 1 Lucas established that the Jedi were utterly clueless to the Sith's existence even though Palpatine was right under their noses. Then and there the trilogy shot itself in the foot because it made out the Jedi to be worse than idiots.
Remember these observations from old Helmet Breath in Episodes 4 and 5?
"The force is strong with this one."
"The force is with you, young Skywalker. But you are not a Jedi yet."
Funny how the Sith are so attuned they can even sniff out potential Jedis but a Jedi can break bread with a Sith Lord for years on end and never catch on. |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 06/01/2006 02:44:09 AM |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 10:44:18 PM
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Well, yeah, but obviously the dark side and being a Sith in particular is all about concealment and deception along with power. Jedi are all honest and out in the open and stuff. If they hid their powers it would be part of a move toward the dark side, I would assume.
Of course, that being said, how did Obi-Wan Kenobi manage to hang out on Tatooine all those years without getting busted by Vader?? You would think Darth had quite the hard-on to find him after what happened between them!
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 10:53:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Funny how the Sith are so attuned they can even sniff out potential Jedis but a Jedi can break bread with a Sith Lord for years on end and never catch on.
Zombiewacker, you bring up an interesting point; looking back, it seems like the Jedi have never been able to tell who has the Force and who doesn’t, while the Sith can do so easily. Recall that in the first film, Obi-Wan started training Luke more to motivate him rather than because he sensed any great potential in him. And no one seemed to know that Leia had the Force. Whereas Vader and the Emperor were able to sense the mere presence of Obi-Wan or Luke, from hundreds of miles away. Perhaps giving oneself to the Dark Side means one is more in tune with the Force itself, and thus better able to sense it. Maybe using intelligence is a way of holding the force in check; that the Force is, fundamentally, evil in nature. That the Force is the Dark Side. That would be an interesting line to pursue. I'm not holding my breath waiting for George Lucas to do so, however. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 02:50:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
And no one seemed to know that Leia had the Force.
Including Vader, who interrogated her face-to-face in Ep4. Plot consistency is not a Lucas strong suit, methinks. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 02:57:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
Recall that in the first film, Obi-Wan started training Luke more to motivate him rather than because he sensed any great potential in him. And no one seemed to know that Leia had the Force. Whereas Vader and the Emperor were able to sense the mere presence of Obi-Wan or Luke, from hundreds of miles away.
Obi-wan knew exactly who Luke was; he must have known how great the potential for the force was in him. Anyway it was always his goal to train him as a Jedi, one would think. I don't think you have the force in any way that can be sensed until you are trained in it. It seems that the force manifests itself in latent ways- you're unusually good at piloting at a young age, say. Then you take the midichlorian test (yeah, whatever) and if it comes up looking good you get trained. Then you set off the the Sith sense (no pun intended- yikes *g*)
That would explain the Vader-Leah situation. Of course, it also means that later when Luke says "The force is strong with my sister" or however he put it he's sort of BS-ing.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 06/01/2006 02:59:29 AM |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 06:55:21 AM
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The whole Luke and Leia being brother and sister always felt tacked on to me. It seemed to be a case of "We need another big plot twist like The Empire Strikes Back" decision. You could take that whole subplot out of RotJ and not do the story much damage.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 08:03:39 AM
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[url]http://jahtruth.net/starwar.htm[/url]
This is either the funniest or the saddest review of Star Wars I've ever read. I can't really make up my mind...
- Who is John Galt? - |
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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 08:33:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
Recall that in the first film, Obi-Wan started training Luke more to motivate him rather than because he sensed any great potential in him. And no one seemed to know that Leia had the Force. Whereas Vader and the Emperor were able to sense the mere presence of Obi-Wan or Luke, from hundreds of miles away.
Obi-wan knew exactly who Luke was; he must have known how great the potential for the force was in him. Anyway it was always his goal to train him as a Jedi, one would think. I don't think you have the force in any way that can be sensed until you are trained in it. It seems that the force manifests itself in latent ways- you're unusually good at piloting at a young age, say. Then you take the midichlorian test (yeah, whatever) and if it comes up looking good you get trained. Then you set off the the Sith sense (no pun intended- yikes *g*)
I agree that sounds good in theory, but consider: Obi-Wan is told Jake Lloyd can't be trained (in Phantom) because "the boy is too old." Mace Windu says this in such a "--duh!" tone of voice that you have to wonder if Jedi start Force training before they start potty training. How would someone younger than Jake Lloyd show signs of being, um, Force-ful? (In Jake Lloyd's case, certainly not through "acting.") I hope they don't have three or four year olds piloting spaceships...though I guess they have them writing scripts....
Forgot to add: If Obi-Wan always intended to train Luke, and if age is so important, why did he wait until Luke was 18 (or so) and he himself an old man? I suppose his uncle would have objected, but Obi-Wan could surely have gotten around that. (I know the real reason: Lucas is making it up as he goes along. I don't buy the idea that he had this grand six or nine film scheme in mind from the get-go. The success of the first film caught everyone off guard.) |
Edited by - RVHorror on 06/01/2006 08:40:43 AM |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 12:29:52 PM
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I've always believed that GL had a basic outline of the backstory in mind, and there seems to be some evidence that the original script of SW was basically the first three movies together. I think you're right about details like Leia being Luke's sister probably getting added much later though, as the thing got expanded into three actual scripts after the first film's success. It really feels like in the first movie Lucas hadn't decided whether Luke or Han was going to hook up with her in the long run.
And the main thing is that he might have had an outline of pre OT lore to use as a guide when writing the first films but when it came down to actually writing it and being specific it totally bit him in the ass. It's one thing to go "yeah, Obi-wan was Anakin's teacher back in the day, blah blah" and then make all that actually work. And then complicate it further with totally unnecessary coincidence like saying Anakin himself built C3PO. I think that's the single dumbest concept in all six movies.
The notion that Jedi training starts so young as to preclude any sign of prodigiousness is pretty much impossible to get around. Maybe on Trantor- sorry, Coruscant, every child gets the test, sort of like getting vacinated *lol*
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 06/01/2006 12:34:58 PM |
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