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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2006 : 2:33:22 PM
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Why, oh why do they need to change the phrase that virtually everyone in this country associates with Superman?
[url]http://movies.go.com/jeannewolf?columnid=837103[/url]
Truth, Justice, and....all that stuff
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
Edited by - Terrahawk on 06/28/2006 06:19:34 AM
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 3:51:58 PM
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| I don't think it really matters. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 4:40:49 PM
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It may not matter jackspencerjr, but it makes it STUPID!
Here're some quotes from the artical and my responces:
Mike: "When it comes to the American way, that's tricky."
Mostly because our schools have decided many years ago that how the United States was formed and how we came to be where we are today is redundant.
Why do a lot of American citizens feel EMBARASSED about loveing their country? They don't seem to think it's odd if people of OTHER countries feel proud of their heratage.
Dan: "I don't think 'the American way' means what it meant in 1945."
No, back then people were PROUD of their country and had every right to be. Now we are afraid to stand for the National Anthem because it's considered "insencitive to others".
Mike: "He's not just for Metropolis, and not just for America."
Who ever said he was? Way back in 1938 one of his first adventures was to stop a civil war in another country.
Dan: "He's an alien, from Krypton; he has come to Earth to be kind of a savior for this world, not our country … And he has no papers."
God there is so much wrong with this statement!
First, he was NOT sent her to be a "savior for this world", he was sent here to excape the destruction of his planet.
Second, his parents had no idea WHERE he would end up on Earth. For all they knew, he could have drown in one of our many oceans! They figured that a slim chance for survival was better than NO chance!
Third, of course he has no papers, see above. Do you think that Jor El and Lara contacted the US emabasy (Or ANY embasy) before sending their child on his trip?
Fourth, he was LEGALY adopted as an abandoned infant (Called "basket babies" back then) by US citizens and raised as an AMERICAN citizen named "Clark Kent". In the Seventies, Superman was voted as a citizen of ALL nations of Earth, but it was generaly known that he was secretly a US citizen.
Mike: "What would happen with the immigration laws we have now?"
See above.
Besides, the DC universe had quite a few heros and heroines come in from OTHER DEMENTIONS, do you want to address that as well? DOOFUS.
Dan: "I'd like to see someone kick him out!"
There are quite a few superheros and heroines who could do that. By the way, Krypton was BLOWN UP, where are you going to deport him to, DOOFUS?
How come thse dolts don't know any of this? Do they REALLY think they can make a movie based on a well-established character just from a couple of press releases from DC comics?
Oh wait, they work in Hollywood. They DO think so.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Tork_110
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 9:40:03 PM
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| Ooh, is the President going to have a kryptonite dome built around the U.S.? Could the Shield Corporation from Highlander 2 lend a hand? |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:04:22 PM
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Frankly, "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" meant "Truth, Justice, and Capitalism" and you're not likely to see that lauded in Hollywood.
Heck, I remember an article interviewing the screenwriters who adapted Hunt For Red October, who said he couldn't imagine Sean Connery's character having a happy life after sinking a sub filled "with his countrymen." Even then, I thought, "the only people on this planet who think a Lithuanian sinking a sub filled with Russians is killing his countrymen are the editors of Pravda and Hollywood screenwriters."
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:10:12 PM
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Well... with the movies being a big international industry, and overseas profits integral to a big budget film recouping its cost, and SupRet being about the biggest budget film in history... I can't entirely blame them. But I blame everyone else. If Superman was (for some reason) a Victorian British superhero we wouldn't bat an eye at all the "Sun never sets on the Empire, pip pip, wot!" that would ensue. He's American; we thought of it. I think he can continue to be American even in the current global climate. They'll hate this in France anyway.
And the "Superman as messiah" stuff all started in the first Donner film. Jor-El almost quoted the Gospel with all that "I send my only son to save their weenie planet" stuff he was spouting...
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 06/27/2006 10:12:07 PM |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:16:16 PM
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"Truth, Justice and the American Way" (within the context of the fantasy) was merely a concept put forth by those who wanted to feel protection in accordance with the what this country is supposed to stand for. Nothing wrong with that, considering Superman does hail from the U.S. since infancy and was raised by American foster parents. Arguing against the phrase is silly.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://henrybrennan.blogspot.com/ |
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Dirk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:56:24 PM
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When I heard that line in the trailers, I actually thought it was kind of neat. I mean, everyone knows what the line REALLY is - every kid can probably still rattle it off. It's a nice surprise, after hearing "Truth, justice, and the American way" so many times, to have it clipped off.
Plus, in the context of the movie, did Superman ever declare that those were the three values he struggled for? It could be just some slogan the newspapers (including the Daily Planet) worked up for him, so it would make sense for Perry White to say the line so dismissively.
Although the reasons they give are pretty ridiculous, I'm not going to get upset about it, as unusual as that may seem. |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 04:21:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Why, oh why do they need to change the phrase that virtually every in this country associates with Superman?
In the world |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 04:31:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Frankly, "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" meant "Truth, Justice, and Capitalism" and you're not likely to see that lauded in Hollywood.
Heck, I remember an article interviewing the screenwriters who adapted Hunt For Red October, who said he couldn't imagine Sean Connery's character having a happy life after sinking a sub filled "with his countrymen." Even then, I thought, "the only people on this planet who think a Lithuanian sinking a sub filled with Russians is killing his countrymen are the editors of Pravda and Hollywood screenwriters."
Hollywood itself, of course, is full of some of the richest capitalists in the world. What you said about the Lithuanians is even more true of the Ukrainians. Can it be that Hollywood, which loves to hold weep-ns about how the Native Americans had their land taken from them, doesn't know about the far more brutal, and more recent, annexation of the Baltic States and the Ukraine? Has there EVER been ONE feature film about that? |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 04:36:51 AM
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quote:
[i]If Superman was (for some reason) a Victorian British superhero we wouldn't bat an eye at all the "Sun never sets on the Empire, pip pip, wot!" that would ensue.
Yes, they would. Any expression of patriotism by any white male,coming from any culture with any tradition of justice or democracy or decency or respect for the rule of law is TABOO nowadays. |
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twitterpate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 08:28:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Frankly, "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" meant "Truth, Justice, and Capitalism" and you're not likely to see that lauded in Hollywood.
True that Hollywood moguls, while lunching at some $300 a plate hot spot, aren't likely to be discussing a movie celebrating capitalism. However, I never took "the American way" to represent capitalism itself - rather, values like democracy, the essential equality of all persons, rule of law, Roosevelt's "Four Freedoms", etc. Not "US-only" virtues, but heroic virtues that the American founders established as goals for which to strive. (Let's face it, my own country's goals of "peace, order and good government", while laudable, don't lead to thoughts of a god-like being coming to exemplify them.)
However, now that I think of it, I'd HATE to see Hollywood try to deal with the concept, since we'd then end up with some cynical "how far we fall from the ideal" movie that, while possibly very interesting, would probably not be what I want to see in a Superman movie. |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 12:20:41 PM
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quote:
twitterpate wrote:
However, now that I think of it, I'd HATE to see Hollywood try to deal with the concept, since we'd then end up with some cynical "how far we fall from the ideal" movie that, while possibly very interesting, would probably not be what I want to see in a Superman movie.
Which is ironic, since the values of "The American Way" rested more in the minds of the masses vs actual government policies pretty much throughout American history. The "we have fallen from the ideal" rhetoric is quite similar to the "ideal" itself since both represent a form of propaganda. But you're right - I wouldn't want to see it in a Superman movie.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://henrybrennan.blogspot.com/ |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 6:16:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by twitterpate
quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Frankly, "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" meant "Truth, Justice, and Capitalism" and you're not likely to see that lauded in Hollywood.
True that Hollywood moguls, while lunching at some $300 a plate hot spot, aren't likely to be discussing a movie celebrating capitalism. However, I never took "the American way" to represent capitalism itself - rather, values like democracy, the essential equality of all persons, rule of law, Roosevelt's "Four Freedoms", etc. Not "US-only" virtues, but heroic virtues that the American founders established as goals for which to strive. (Let's face it, my own country's goals of "peace, order and good government", while laudable, don't lead to thoughts of a god-like being coming to exemplify them.)
However, now that I think of it, I'd HATE to see Hollywood try to deal with the concept, since we'd then end up with some cynical "how far we fall from the ideal" movie that, while possibly very interesting, would probably not be what I want to see in a Superman movie.
You got to that before I could.
"The American way" was not "capitalism", it was OPPORTUNITY. The United States used to be called "the land of opportunity" and people would flock here to BETTER themselves, create better lives for their children, get jobs denied them in "the old country", this WAS the american dream, but we have traided it all for some spurious demand of "guarenteed equality".
By The Way, in the pre-1950s radio shows and cartoons, Superman was discribed as fighting for "Truth and justice" only. People then pretty much thought of that as part of "the American way".
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 6:43:06 PM
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Capitalism IS opportunity, practically by definition. *g*
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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Kit Rex
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 10:58:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
Capitalism IS opportunity, practically by definition.
Which is why I don't understand why it's become a dirty word.
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"Time. Time. What is time? Swiss manufacture it. French hoard it. Italians squander it. Americans say it is money. Hindus say it does not exist. Do you know what I say? I say time is a crook." |
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