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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2006 : 5:47:17 PM
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Recently watched the Ewan MacGregor flick Stay and this may be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen about ten minutes of this thing, but it has the Jacob's Ladder ending.
This refers to the 1990 film Jacob's Ladder starring Tim Robbins, directed by Adrian Lynne, written by Bruce Joel Rubin. For those unfamiliar with that movie, here's what happened:
*SPOILER*SPOILER*SPOILER*SPOILER*SPOILER*
Jacob's ladder is about this guy, Jacob, who was a Vietnam vet (the movie takes place in the 70's) starts seeing weird things, like monsters or demons and government agents are after him and maybe he was sprayed with some chemical in the war. So it's one of those plots where the main character doesn't know what's going on and spends the whole movie trying to piece it together and the audience is racing to keep up and, get this, it ends with him dying back in Vietnam. Everything that happened after the war was a dying man's dream!!! There were no monster, no demons, no government agents, no chemical, none of that. 99% of the movie was just a dream.
Stay also ends as a dying (or badly injured) man's dream.
I hate that.
This kind of ending is not clever. They should stop using it. It leaves me feeling cheated because I feel like i wasted my time watching the whole stupid movie only to find out that none of it is real. Worse, since I had seen Jacob's Ladder, I knew it was going that way from the previews. I watched anyway hoping it wouldn't, but it did.
Seriously, though. Dreams need to just go away from movies because they completely undercut audience engagement. Very rarely have dreams worked well in film. Some people need to recognize they are not skilled enough to handle it. |
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John Doe
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 6:29:52 PM
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Ambrose Bierce invented that kind of ending with his famous short story "An Ocurrence at Owl Creek Bridge". I kinda think sometimes that "Jacob's Ladder" depicts the dying man's stay in purgatory with his chiropractor as an angel helping him to deal with his past sins in order to win entrance to heaven.
my eyes!! the goggles do nothing!! |
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Ambrose Bierce
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 7:55:16 PM
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And have I seen one dime of royalties? No, I have not.
Nature makes mistakes. It's proven every day. |
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Nowhere Man
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 8:02:31 PM
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Well, you didn't leave a forwarding address, now did you? BTW, how's Judge Crater?
Fred |
Edited by - Nowhere Man on 07/05/2006 8:03:27 PM |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 10:58:17 PM
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Love your dictionary, Mr. Bierce.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 11:21:50 PM
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quote:
This kind of ending is not clever. They should stop using it. It leaves me feeling cheated because I feel like i wasted my time watching the whole stupid movie only to find out that none of it is real.
They used a similar device in [url="http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/blumen2.html"]Brazil.[/url]
Except the dream started at the same time as Sam's torture. This was used to give the story a hollow victory. Because Charlie retreated in to his dream world and left the totalitarian one behind.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Ambrose Bierce
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 01:21:24 AM
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. . . And don't get me started on Wisdom. Oh wait. He wasn't dying at the end. Well, I still hate that movie.
quote:
Love your dictionary, Mr. Bierce.
Thanks. I liked your work for the Polish resistance during WWII. Or was that Jan Nowak?
Nature makes mistakes. It's proven every day. |
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nshumate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
464 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 07:19:42 AM
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While I will agree that most of the time the "it never really happened" ending is a lazy copout (and that includes the 47 times they used a sci-fi variation of it in friggin' Voyager), I adore Jacob's Ladder, because it's not just a tacked-on solution; it's the point of the whole movie.
Nathan Shumate
http://www.coldfusionvideo.com |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 10:41:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nshumate
While I will agree that most of the time the "it never really happened" ending is a lazy copout (and that includes the 47 times they used a sci-fi variation of it in friggin' Voyager), I adore Jacob's Ladder, because it's not just a tacked-on solution; it's the point of the whole movie.
Can you expand on that? Because if I'm reading you right, then the reason you love the movie is the smae reason I hate it. |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 04:26:12 AM
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I love it for the same reason as Mr Shumate. It doesn't spring the ending on the audience - in fact, it is talked around for most of the film. The things that the main character sees and experiences can't be explained by him living in the "real world", so the resolution - and his salvation - work well in the movie.
On the other hand, movies that just launch into "IT WAS ALL A DREAM" territory with no / weak warning signs deserve all the criticism they get.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review(s) - Heckler King takes on "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers" and "The Guyver"; I endure "Crying Freeman" |
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nshumate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
464 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 08:01:38 AM
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I never expand; it's too fattening. And anyway, Mt. Subject (May I call you Unknown?) pretty much nailed it. This wasn't an ending tacked on because the writer had painted himself into a corner, like the original Invaders From Mars (or even worse, Bela Lugosi Meets a Brooklyn Gorilla). Instead, the entire movie is about the protagonist learning to let go of the intense "keep it normal" fabrications which his psyche had in desperation thrown together to cling to life. It's a movie about letting go and moving on; it's no surprise that the same writer, Bruce Joel Rabin, also wrote Ghost, which treats the same themes much less phantasmagorically.
(On the other hand, one might legitimately make the criticism that Jacob's Ladder is nothing more than an uncredited remake of Carnival of Souls, but...)
Nathan Shumate
http://www.coldfusionvideo.com |
Edited by - nshumate on 07/07/2006 08:04:39 AM |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 10:40:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nshumate
May I call you Unknown?) pretty much nailed it.
Hurray for my carpentry skills!
And I'm happy to be called UnSub or US if that makes things easier. Only reason I'm using the full UnknownSubject was because, long ago, I used 'UnSub' to sign in and then Mozilla wouldn't let me log in... then I forgot the password. Bug with Mozilla got fixed and I had to create a new handle. True (and boring!) story.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review(s) - Heckler King takes on "Bibleman: Shattering the Prince of Pride"; I stay awake for "Tank Girl" |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 05:45:48 AM
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| Why has nobody mentioned THE SIXTH SENSE? Thanks for wanring me away from STAY. |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 05:59:45 AM
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That's not quite the same twist ending. The main character might be dead but the events of the movie actually did happen rather than being a dream/ in purgatory.
There are a lot of movies which use this idea and some of them are good but the plot has been used a few to many times and usually you can spot them from a mile away. |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 9:44:37 PM
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If I may put something out there for a kind of flip side (and tie it in with Mr. Gilliam) how about The Adventures of Baron Munchausen? When I first saw it I'd figured the entire of the movie was proving he wasn't all full of B.S., but then when it ends.......he was. I love the movie, and the end is kind of poignant (sp?) in its own way, but still -
Jacob's Ladder (the subject title) is a movie i liked for examples given above; I'd interpreted it as a dying man slowly coming to grips with the fact that he's dying, eventually reaching acceptance and passing on. White Wolf has an RPG called Wraith, wherein you played characters stuck in a ghostly 'purgatory', there to remain until your character lets go of that which binds him to the world of the living - which is what reminded me of Jacob's Ladder.
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 4:20:48 PM
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I'll see your Jacob's Ladder and raise you a Donnie Darko. I can't remember a film I hated more than that one. I got stuck watching it with some friends, and was squirming through the whole damn pretentious thing. Then the ending arrived and I nearly kicked in my TV screen. All that pain for that hoary old dog of an ending.
I'm sure some people here like that movie, but I stand by my opinion. It's a steaming pile of self-satisfied twaddle.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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