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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2006 : 2:03:09 PM
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| I can't see why, really. I mean, beautiful or ugly it's the main character's mum, so that puts her almost inmediately above good and evil. That and that she is played by the then girlfriend of Tim Burton. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2006 : 3:06:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville
I can't see why, really. I mean, beautiful or ugly it's the main character's mum, so that puts her almost inmediately above good and evil. That and that she is played by the then girlfriend of Tim Burton.
Dude...ya lost me with that.
That made no sence to me....Burton's GF? Not important. Above good and evil?....okey, i need some more detail, my Spanish friend...please?
"Cole, stop handing Dr. Doom the Keys to the Baxter building." Brent Sienna/PvP.
"I speak 34 different languages. But gibberish is not one of them."- Danger Mouse.
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2006 : 9:08:34 PM
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Certainly it makes a difference what she looks like. For the same reason unattractive people don't get gigs doing television news.
If she'd been haggard and as uncompromising and mean as the husband, then it would've equated witchcraft and Christianity as "equals". Equally bad in the director's eye. But directors do not leave such interpretations up to chance. Every single frame in a movie is controlled for content. Unintended things to not end up on screen.
So, his mother was portrayed as Wendy, the Good Witch of the West, while the Christian father got to look and sound like that guy in Pink Floyd's "The Wall" where if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding!
Making traditional Christianity look crude, ineffective, mean and corrupt was very much a part of Burton's intent. It was not necessary to do so. They already established that Depp was a devotee of scientific method within the first few minutes of the movie, so it wasn't necessary to have a flashback explaining why he is so enamored of science.
It stands in and of itself and doesn't need explaining. But Burton wanted to inject a little opinion into the movie... |
Edited by - Citizen Carrier on 07/17/2006 9:10:47 PM |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2006 : 9:43:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Citizen Carrier
Certainly it makes a difference what she looks like. For the same reason unattractive people don't get gigs doing television news.
If she'd been haggard and as uncompromising and mean as the husband, then it would've equated witchcraft and Christianity as "equals". Equally bad in the director's eye. But directors do not leave such interpretations up to chance. Every single frame in a movie is controlled for content. Unintended things to not end up on screen.
So, his mother was portrayed as Wendy, the Good Witch of the West, while the Christian father got to look and sound like that guy in Pink Floyd's "The Wall" where if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding!
Making traditional Christianity look crude, ineffective, mean and corrupt was very much a part of Burton's intent. It was not necessary to do so. They already established that Depp was a devotee of scientific method within the first few minutes of the movie, so it wasn't necessary to have a flashback explaining why he is so enamored of science.
It stands in and of itself and doesn't need explaining. But Burton wanted to inject a little opinion into the movie...
...and he brought my opinion of him down quite a bit. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sensed that Burton was going out of his way to trample on Christianity. |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2006 : 11:34:29 PM
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Because I'm such a political junkie, this is often the aspect of a movie that I notice most.
No, I'm probably not going to catch that subtle homage to "Last Tango in Paris" or "Battleship Potemkin" the director snuck in there. I'm probably not going to discuss cinematography all that much.
I do notice when something is being maligned or attacked for the sheer politics of it.
Like the none-to-subtle anti-2nd Amendment messages buried in Lethal Weapon movies. Hey, if gun violence bothers you all that much, stop making money off of movies that glorify gun violence and stick to Merchant Ivory productions of Aldus Huxley novels. |
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Homertron
Altar Boy of Jabootu
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 9:51:06 PM
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While the movie Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds had its share of problems. By the far worst scene in the movie was the ending..
SPOILERS.....
When the son pops up out of the blue and gives dear old dad a hug. WTF? The kid survived the alien attack and pretty much made his whole sacrifice a mute point.
Just terrible
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 04:17:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Flangepart
quote:
Originally posted by Neville
I can't see why, really. I mean, beautiful or ugly it's the main character's mum, so that puts her almost inmediately above good and evil. That and that she is played by the then girlfriend of Tim Burton.
Dude...ya lost me with that.
That made no sence to me....Burton's GF? Not important. Above good and evil?....okey, i need some more detail, my Spanish friend...please?
Oh. What I meant is that I didn't think painting Depp's father character as an evil priest was because Tim Burton wanted to attack religion, but rather because it's difficult to see a movie in which the main character's mother is evil, and that the character of Depp's mother was played by the then Burton girlfriend, Lisa Marie. It seems obvious to me that if Burton had to choose sides, he would prefer to take the side of this particular character rather than Depp's father's.
Also note that Burton has never (to my knowledge) attacked religion before or after that film, and that he seems to feel more empathy towards villains (because they are often outsiders) rather than for standard heroes. Note for instances that other heroes in Burton's films include Jack Skellington, Beetlejuice (as opposed to the rather bland human couple) or that in his batman outings he paid far more attention to the villains than to batman himself. All this seems consistant with the situation in Sleepy Hollow, where he thinks Depp's mother (a witch) is far more sympathetic than his father (the priest). |
Edited by - Neville on 07/23/2006 04:46:02 AM |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 5:36:20 PM
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There is something to this, but I don't think it was accidental that everyone--including the "evil" witch--who practiced witchcraft in the movie was a hottie and that everyone identifying with Christianity was either mean and stern, ugly and patriarchal like the father, or corrupt and sexually depraved (wasn't the town pastor in flagrante delicto with the evil witch in one scene?).
Chrisianity is seen as just another arm of the establishment, having no real power except as a tool of discrimination and bigotry while witchcraft is practiced by gifted, talented and beautiful people that ordinary people hate and distrust. A classic play on outcast teenagers who dream of having "powers" that make them feel special and appreciated. |
Edited by - Citizen Carrier on 07/23/2006 5:37:51 PM |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 9:28:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Homertron
While the movie Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds had its share of problems. By the far worst scene in the movie was the ending..
SPOILERS.....
When the son pops up out of the blue and gives dear old dad a hug. WTF? The kid survived the alien attack and pretty much made his whole sacrifice a mute point.
Just terrible
I wouldn't have minded that scene so much if the son had been wounded or at least bruised and banged-up... anything to suggest that he might have suffered his own traumatic journey to safety. But instead it's like apparently he runs straight at an attacking Martian war machine, escapes that scott-free, then strolls across the countryside unmolested until he gets to his mom's house. It's a real, "BUH?!?!" moment.
A recent example I can think of scenes whose deltion would have made the movie better was in THE GREAT RAID. It seemed like whenever the movie cut to the Connie Nielsen character, it slowed down to an absolute crawl. She just seemed to be completely unimportant to the plot, just stuck in to provide from "female interest" in the picture. And, my other gripe with her character was that the director on the commentary track said she was "supposed to represent the Filipino resistance" to the Japanese. Wouldn't it have been a bit more accurate to have the Filipino resistance be represented by, I dunno, Filipinos? |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 4:31:45 PM
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The Great Raid suffered from a lack of focus. There were two movies there. Either tell the one about the raid or the one about the resistance. Trying to do both left the film sadly shallow.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 5:54:11 PM
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| It also suffered of having the wrong director. John Dahl is clueless about making war movies. Since he tried to convince everybody he was good at other things besides thrillers he has made turd after turd. |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 10:44:00 PM
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In the Michael Caine/Pierce Brosnan espionage thriller The Fourth Protocol there is a scene were Michael Caine's character is going home from work.
He goes home via subway. While reading a newspaper two drunk youths start to harass a black woman. Saying things like "will it bite me if I feed it" and "go f--- off back to Africa with commie bastard friends." Anyone who looks at them, get a similar round of insults. And the woman starts to quietly cry.
Well, Michael can't have that.
So acts like he's about to step off at his stop and gets close to the youths. Then he sucker punches both of them. Hard. He steps off the subway and the camera pans down to the youths with bloody noses and a "what the hell happend" looks on their faces.
And this is a movie about a Russian secret agent trying to sneak a nuclear bomb in to England. This detour had nothing to do with the story. I've always thought that scene was highly inappropriate.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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WinterHarvest
Altar Boy of Jabootu
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 02:15:10 AM
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In My Super Ex-Girlfriend Wanda Sykes is not needed at all. She's so unfunny I think they tossed her in there because they realized all the other characters were White.
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I'm glad that I've finally seen a Uwe Boll film in the theater, and proud to own the director's cut. I'm also happy that it's the best film Boll has made to date (that I've seen). I hope that some day, it will be possible to watch a film he made and actually enjoy it in the way he thought it would be enjoyed. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 06:29:01 AM
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| I saw Silent Hill a week ago. It's a film with many faults, but I somehow liked the visuals. The story, however, would have worked a bit better if all scenes involving Sean Bean had been cut. Ironically, those scenes weren't filmed until the studio complained the story had no male characters of importance. |
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 1:18:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville
Ironically, those scenes weren't filmed until the studio complained the story had no male characters of importance.
Which is amusing considering that the filmmakers made a deliberate choice to change the sex of the main character because it judged that to worry about a missing child to the extent that you actually search for them was more of a feminine characteristic.
The video game itself had Cheryl's father be the person searching for them; her mother was deceased by that point.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
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