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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
 Posted - 08/10/2006 : 6:09:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nlneff
Yeah, the ending kinda bugged, the original UK ending is better, but honestly I thought it could have ended effectively
Spoiler
with Sarah just sobbing in the car, no last second scare or anything. I think that would have worked dramaticaly if you wanted a "happy" ending.
Juno was the most interesting character I've seen in a horror movie in a long time.
Nineff, I was thinking the exact same thing. I think they were trying to make it another hallucination Sara was having. Like her family's death before, this is the kind of trauma that Sara will be flashing back to again and again (add to that, she did the equivalent of killing Juno in cold blood; no matter what kind of jerk Juno was, that'll come back to haunt her). But they should've had another shot showing that she was hallucinating, or just ended it exactly as you said.
Talk about nitpicking. Here I am spending all this time on that one bit, and not gushing on about what a damned scary movie this was! |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2006 : 05:07:53 AM
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| Did anyone besides me read the reviews of THE DESCENT, which I havn't seen, and read about the women being stalked by humanoids in a cave and think of Tom Sawyer and Becky being stalked by Indian Jim in the cave? Not to mention the Little Rascals and MAMA'S LITTLE PIRATE? |
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Kooshmeister
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2006 : 07:45:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by New Hinda
Did anyone besides me read the reviews of THE DESCENT, which I havn't seen, and read about the women being stalked by humanoids in a cave and think of Tom Sawyer and Becky being stalked by Indian Jim in the cave? Not to mention the Little Rascals and MAMA'S LITTLE PIRATE?
Minor nitpick, his name was Injun Joe, not Indian Jim. |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2006 : 08:33:34 AM
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I don't know (not as the suggestions here, but as to the original ending itself). While a bit of a purist, I don't think the revised ending--which I haven't seen, but can figure out--really hurts the film. It remains a pretty downbeat piece, even with a 'happy' ending.
I have to admit, too, that I find last second 'shock' endings more boring than frightening since about, oh, one or two years after Carrie came out.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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flellis
Archdeacon of Jabootu
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2006 : 9:21:52 PM
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| Just saw it. And I don't think that ending is all happy. As it stands, Sarah had the most demons before going into the cave and needless to say has more demons coming out. Her emerging from the end of it reminded me like Marilyn Burns at the end of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. She may have survived but she'll be haunted forever by what happened. That's all assuming that Juno is a hallucination. If she isn't, then Juno is another thing Sarah has to deal with. We're talking about the choice of dealing with ghosts or mentally scarred for life. Not a happy choice to choose from. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 05:52:02 AM
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I've seen the European cut, which ends...
SPOILERS AHEAD
SERIOUSLY
...with Sarah leaving Juno to the Humanoids so she can make her escape. She then uses the jeep to reach a more civilised road and she stops on the roadside. She faints / falls asleep only to be awakened up an incoming truck.
She then has another flashback of her lost daughter, and the film ends with her buried deep inside the cave, while more Humanoids crawl in the chambers close to her.
END SPOILERS
And yes, this double-ending, rather than explaining the whole thing, adds more questions about the whole movie. Still, I don't think it hurst it as seriously as some reviewers say, as we have some clues during the film that Sarah is not as mentally stable as we are led to believe. I mean, we don't know how she dealt with the dead of her family (if she ever did), we have clues that she is bitter at Juno, and, more importantly, we see her taking lots of pills just before entering the cave, which could seriously affect her perception of everything what follows. |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 10:25:42 PM
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BIG TIME SPOILER AHEAD
Okay. Saw it today with my sister. Good movie, but I am embarassed to say that I COMPLETELY missed the main reason Sarah killed Juno at the end. My sister explained it to me and rarely have I felt more obtuse than this [que "Seinfeldian" forehead slap].
I thought it was because Juno killed that one girl accidentally and then left her there wounded. I missed the hints that Juno had been cheating with Sarah's husband. Because I missed them, Sarah's actions at the end didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Even after it was explained to me I thought there was a little more justification then, but not much good sense. She didn't know how close she was to the exit and here she eliminated half of her combat power over some infidelity?
Look, when I'm in the cave and the turbo-Gollum guys have me surrounded, I don't care if all I've got for backup is Jeffrey Dahlmer and Adolf Hitler. I'm going to keep my team together as long as I can!
I can get rid of them afterwards.
Well, just my one small nitpick. Otherwise, this was an extraordinary movie. Especially considering the budget. And the women doing the killing and surviving (until the moment where they didn't survive) and displaying basic competency didn't strike me as the artificial "I am woman, hear me roar" type stuff you get in movies like "Alien vs. Predator" or "Resident Evil". I didn't have to suspend disbelief in order to buy the fact that these women would conduct themselves exactly as they did. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 04:34:32 AM
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SPOILERS AGAIN
To be honest, I also missed those hints about Juno having slept with Sarah's husband. If anybody around did notice them, I'd appreciate if they mentioned them in this thread.
This said, Sarah's actions regarding Juno at the end didn't struck me as illogical. The fact that Juno had left that other woman for dead would be enough to ignite Sarah's anger, given the situation, and at that point she couldn't tell how far she was from the exit. All that mattered to her at that moment is that Juno's death would buy her some critical seconds. |
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Nlneff
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 06:19:22 AM
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Spoilers.
The signs that Juno was having a affair with Paul were extremely subtle. At the begining, when Paul is taking off Juno's helmet, they seem to be awkward around each other, and Beth gives them a odd stare. Just before the car wreck Paul is distracted by something, and finaily Juno leaving soon after the accident could be interpreted as having to leave before Sarah realized what she was really grieving. Honestly, if I hadnt been spoiled, I would have missed them too.
I don't think Marshall really intended the viewer to think that Sarah's actions were justified or logical. After all, the movie is called The Descent, and few human motivations are lower then revenge. I loved that it was implied that Juno could have escaped but insisted on going back to save Sarah, out of a sense of both honor and guilt.
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Edited by - Nlneff on 08/14/2006 06:21:46 AM |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 06:53:09 AM
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Well, yes, you have a point there. When I said "logical" I meant that I could understand it, given the circumstances.
And thanks for the heads up, I've seen the film twice and didn't find those "clues". As you say, they are *very* subtle. |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 08:20:26 AM
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| Well, the most obvious indicator was pretty clear. Juno is constantly favoring her necklace, with its little charm on it (an arrowhead, I think). The big reveal shows that it has a saying that Sarah's husband liked to use inscribed on it. |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 08:26:43 AM
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What's interesting is that Juno's betrayal is what causes her (June) to go back for Sarah, while Juno's abandoning of (can't remember her name) to a slow and miserable death is what confirms Sarah's feeling that Juno is untrustworthy. I have to say, my distaste for Juno didn't rest so much on her leaving her friend behind, but on not finishing her off first in a fairly clean fashion.
What I liked about this is that movies usually portray woman as inherently warm and inevitably ready to forgive. In my (admittedly limited) experience, woman can also be less likely to forgive what they see as personal betrayals than men. Men tend to think legalistically, in terms of rules and whatnot, whereas I think woman are more apt to see things purely in personal terms. (Yada yada, not every woman ever, blah blah.)
I found the fact that Sarah was so cold-blooded about killing Juno entirely believable, and refreshing compared to what in most movie would have instead been a scene in which she forgives Juno and they help each other triumphantly survive.
Nineff is correct. Sarah's actions aren't meant to be justified or logical, but merely realistic. And I found them so, anyway.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 10:53:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken HPoJ
What's interesting is that Juno's betrayal is what causes her (June) to go back for Sarah, while Juno's abandoning of (can't remember her name) to a slow and miserable death is what confirms Sarah's feeling that Juno is untrustworthy. I have to say, my distaste for Juno didn't rest so much on her leaving her friend behind, but on not finishing her off first in a fairly clean fashion.
Her name was Beth. And I agree with you on Juno's actions. Her stabbing of Beth was an honest accident, something no reasonable person would blame her for, under the circumstances. But her choice to just leave Beth behind and to lie about it lost any sympathy I might have had for her.
My only problem with the film other than the "shock ending" was the fact that Beth would have certainly bled to death long before she and Sarah see each other again. (Since we're now in major spoilers territory, I may as well tell all, yes?) But within the movie, Juno was leaving behind someone they could have possibly saved. In my book, that's tantamount to murder. |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 09:22:54 AM
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I don't know if it's tantamount to murder, and in fact, I'd have had a lot less problem with Juno if she'd have forthrightly finished Beth off rather than abandoning her to a presumably much worse fate. Once she had (accidentally) all but killed Beth, it was her responsibility to deal with the situation one way or other. Ideally, she would have attempted to save Beth. However, under those circumstances, I can see why she wouldn't. However, her she trying to keep her hands clean by leaving it for the monsters to finish killing Beth was truly unforgivable. Note how Sarah, who didn't have Juno's responsibility for Beth's fate, did the right thing when she found her.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 09:43:26 AM
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I guess I was more sympathetic to Juno's character than most were. No, and not because she was the hottest.
I assumed that Beth was dead when she hit the ground. The movie didn't really elaborate on the fact that she was still alive. It would've been more effective for her to have made gurgling, pathetic moans for help as Juno abandoned her. That would've driven the message home more. As it was, I didn't know she was merely just wounded until later on when Sarah found her.
I think some slack should be given to Juno because she may have been in shock after staring into the eyes of a friend she'd just accidentally killed. Lying about it later, well, I understand.
"Hey guys, sorry, but I accidentally drove a spike through Beth's neck and killed her."
Not the sort of thing you share.
Still, if I can call for some slack for Juno because she might have been in shock, I suppose some should be given to Sarah too.
Falling into a pool of blood and finishing up the rest of the movie looking like that dude from "The 13th Warrior"
[img]http://www.dvdreview.com/fullreviews/Images/13thWarrior/The13thWarrior10.jpg[/img]
is not exactly a recipe for good mental health. Looked like the movie was hinting that Sarah was in for years and years of therapy and hallucinations. |
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