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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2006 : 11:14:58 AM
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Anyone know what the offical tonnage is befoe a big animal becomes an offical giant monster? Like, a T-rex vs a Grabboid, Vs Gamera or the Giant Behemouth?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
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Edited by - Flangepart on 11/21/2006 2:55:39 PM
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The Rev. D.D.
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 10:08:14 PM
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Building-sized, or big enough to actively destroy buildings?
I don't know about tonnage, but it seems like anything that stands at least 50 feet in height is generally considered a kaiju. Generally, if they're real creatures, they have to be outlandishly large to be a kaiju. A T-Rex wouldn't be, unless it was a couple times larger than it would be in reality. (See: Gorosaurus) For made up critters I think the 50 foot height is good. Grabboids are big, but not really big enough to be a kaiju...they can knock over mobile homes, but they'd have a hell of a time bringing down a skyscraper.
I am not an authority by any means, but I am a gigantic fan of kaiju eiga.
Of course, who the hell's an authority on this subject, anyway? I'm as good as anyone else, right?
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"Glen was 50 feet tall!"
-Joyce Manning, War of the Colossal Beast |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 10:40:38 PM
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That was basically my answer. I think the two main factors are A) too big to physically exist and B) able to crush at least a car with one foot. Thus, King Kong clearly qualifies. Oh, and obviously non humanoid. Otherwise, Ultraman would count.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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The Rev. D.D.
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 12:15:49 PM
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I'd count Ultraman. I don't think humanoid is a limiting factor, otherwise Sanda and Gaira from War of the Gargantuas and the Mighty Peking Man wouldn't count, and they're definitely kaiju.
King Kong...I somehow didn't take him into account. Even though he's only, what, 25 or 30 feet tall, he seems like he could be considered one. And that leads to other, similar sized critters, like the Rhedosaurus.
That car crushing rule actually seems like a pretty good one.
Maybe we need Jabootu's/Ken's Rule of Kaijuness...
And sadly, we still haven't answered the tonnage issue. I wouldn't know how to convert that. What'd Kong weigh?
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Maybe the rule should be, "Must be large enough to allow comparison to a battleship." |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 3:00:58 PM
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Well put, fellow monster fans.
I guess its size and mass. Grabbouds can fit in the back of Earl's duce and a half, and while they can tear up cars, they can't activly smash one flat...not YET anyway.
I mean, if Grabboids can have four life/size stages....why stop there?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 7:21:00 PM
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I figure King Kong has to be one because he fought Godzilla. of course, he was even bigger then. I'm still not sure about Ultraman.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Altair IV
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Japan
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 08:52:47 AM
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I had a lesson with one of my private students the other day and I brought up this topic with her. I wanted to know what a real Japanese person considers a "kaiju" to be.
Her answer was basically that to her, a kaiju is the kind of monster you see face-off against Ultraman. It has to be larger-than-life and fantastic in appearance. A simple giant beast or humanoid, like King Kong, generally doesn't qualify in her opinion. I wasn't able to pin down any particular size though. Mostly it was just "big", except that even the human-sized pre-growth Ultraman foe would be kaiju. She said that generally, it's a kaiju when and because the filmmakers say it is.
I asked her if a kaiju had to have something in connection with the sea, since the word literally means "sea-beast" in Japanese. She just brought up Mothra as an example, so I guess that would be a no.
She's not really a movie fan type though, so I can't say she was in a position to give me a definitive answer. She liked the question though and told me she intends to ask some of her friends what she thinks. Our next lesson is in a couple of weeks, and if she comes up with anything new I'll post it here. I might also ask some of my other acquaintances what they think. |
Edited by - Altair IV on 11/28/2006 09:01:24 AM |
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The Rev. D.D.
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 12:43:42 PM
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Reminds me of a conversation with my Japanese teacher in college. I said I liked monster movies in Japanese, and he asked which ones. I said "Godzilla" and he actually got confused. Thankfully I remembered the Japanese version, "Gojira", and then he got it. He said his grandson liked Gamera but he himself wasn't that big a fan.
Anyway, you actually bring up a good point, one I'm ashamed to admit I'd forgotten. "Kaiju" can be, as your student said, any size really, as it means "monster" or, as you wrote, "sea beast". "Daikaiju" is the word for the giant, city-stompin' critters we love, "dai" meaning (I think) "big."
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D'OH!! |
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Altair IV
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Japan
110 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 08:38:10 AM
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Actually, I'm embarrased to report that I was mistaken about the meaning. For years I've been under the impression that it translated to "sea-beast", but it turns out I was wrong. Blame it all the fact that there are different kanji that have the same pronunciation. The word Japanese kaiju with "kai=sea" really just means sea animal, like a fish or whale or something. But there's a completely different "kai" that means something more like strange, mysterious, or supernatural. So the kaiju they refer to in the movies really means "unnatural beast" or something to that effect. I really should've known better, because it's a character used an awful lot in horror and sf movie titles.
I discovered this because I asked another student the same question yesterday. His English is quite good so there was a bit better communcation here. He pretty much said the same thing though. A kaiju is a giant, decidedly unnatural monster. No humanoids or giant animals need apply. He was of the opinion that they should all be giant though, not man-sized.
And yes, "dai" just means big, so a daikaiju is a kaiju that's really-honking-big, as opposed to just really big.
Oh, and I'm sure you know that the Japanese name "Gojira" is a hybrid combination of "gorilla" and "kujira", which means whale. Interesting combo that. |
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The Rev. D.D.
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 09:55:17 AM
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"Unnatural beast" then. Cool, there's my "something new I learned today" for today!
I'm glad I was right on "dai" at least. I've found I don't retain other languages too well.
That's a fair interpretation of a kaiju. Still, monsters like the Tarantula, the Deadly Mantis, and Glen Manning will always be kaiju to me.
I wonder if Sanda and Gaira are considered kaiju, or if they're too close to humanoid to make the cut. Other than the fur they're pretty much giant people.
Yeah, I knew about the name creation. I'd be a pretty lame giant monster movie fan if I didn't. I'd be drummed right out of the fanbase!
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Did you know Gamera is friend to all children? |
Edited by - The Rev. D.D. on 12/01/2006 09:55:50 AM |
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Altair IV
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Japan
110 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 10:25:09 AM
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Well, considering that the Japanese title is "Frankenstein no Kaiju: Sanda tai Gaira", I'd say it's safe to say yes.
Note, I'm not familar with Sanda and Gaira myself. I had to [url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060440/"]look it up[/url] on IMDB. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 12:25:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Altair IV
Well, considering that the Japanese title is "Frankenstein no Kaiju: Sanda tai Gaira", I'd say it's safe to say yes.
Note, I'm not familar with Sanda and Gaira myself. I had to [url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060440/"]look it up[/url] on IMDB.
Wow. Thanks for the knowlage! I knew from reading G-FAN what DaiKaiju ment. But you added a lot.
Andrew Borntreger at BADMOVIES.ORG and his gang have had fun with this topic too.
Andrew mentioned the ability to absorb massive amounts of firepower. True! Unlike the Amurrican G, "Deanzilla", the real deal can take a pounding from a tank company, and still "light 'em up" when he's good and pissed! And lets not forget building smashing!
Oh, and fleeing populace...gotta be able to cause that!
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
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The Rev. D.D.
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 5:23:10 PM
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That's actually a good point about their invulnerability, which most giant monsters, at least in the Japanese vein. Which'd rule out simple giant animals, since gas bombs put out the Deadly Mantis, one direct hit from a missile annihilated the Tarantula (and a couple took out the American Godzilla, big ol' iguana that it was)...sadly, that'd take out the Rhedosaurus too, since they could've blown him to pieces with simple artillery if it hadn't been for the ancient blood-borne pathogen he was carrying around. (I always loved that...an actual, well-thought reason to avoid the monster simply being shot to death by the military, rather than a simple "our bullets can't stop it!")
Maybe another corollary should be "if more than one monster is present, and they don't wrestle at some point, they're not really kaiju." I can't think of any giant monster movie with more than one critter in it that didn't feature them shoving, tossing, slamming, or tackling each other. And that's half the fun. Even if, in the future, all kaiju eiga are pure CGI, they still have to wrestle dammit.
I have an old tape of War of the Gargantuas I got one wonderful day, when I found several Japanese monster movies on video. They ranged from $6 to $10 new and I didn't care what they were about, I just wanted 'em! Otherwise I wouldn't have heard about it until college, when I found G-Fan for the first time. Can't remember the company that put it out then, but they put out quite a few Toho films, with really nice original (at least I assume they were) paintings on the boxes.
I wouldn't see releases like that until the past year or so, what with obscurities like Dogora and Matango being put out.
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Shat-tastic? Kaiju-riffic's the way to be, man! |
Edited by - The Rev. D.D. on 12/09/2006 5:30:49 PM |
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