| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Paul LoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
420 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2006 : 4:49:54 PM
|
I will pay 90% comissions to anyone who can successfully serve and recoup payment from invoices similiar to the sample displayed below.
I can modify the wording on http://www.Jabootu.com/forum/policy.asp if changing it might make collection more probable. If the law allows discovery of the actual link-poster's identity through a subpoena on their affiliate program, or through their IP address and their ISP (when not posted by a botnet), all the better.
Bottom line, on the remote chance that someone can think of a way to hold a traceable person or entity financially liable for this crap, I'm declaring open season & I just want a small cut of the booty.
The current wording of the relevant part of the forum registration page is this:
quote:
By pressing "Agree" below, you further consent that Jabootu.com, having incurred costs in maintaining this website, and having established revenue-producing affiliate and ad-placement agreements with third parties, is entitled to revenues from advertising links placed on this site, and you legally certify that you are duly authorized to incur invoices against any company for whom you place advertising links on this site without written authorization by the site's administrators. By placing advertising links within this forum, you consent to Jabootu.com charging the advertised company a fee of $10.00 per link per day for such links. If you wish to negotiate a different agreement, you may contact the webmaster to inquire about authorized and permissible advertising under a different fee structure.
Here's a sample invoice, submitted to http://acnezine.abc-herbal.com/contact.php:
quote:
Greetings,
This is your advertising service invoice for 11/23/2006 through 11/25/2006 on www.Jabootu.com.
Date Quantity Description Unit Price Extended Price
11/23/2006 18 Advertising links $18.00* $180.00
11/24/2006 18 Advertising links $18.00* $180.00
11/25/2006 18 Advertising links $18.00* $180.00
===========================================================================
Total fees for 11/23 - 11/25/2006: $540.00
For your reference, your links appear on the following page:
http://www.Jabootu.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3108
Also for reference, our fees are set out at http://www.Jabootu.com/forum/policy.asp, which the poster had to consent to in order to register for the forum and post said links.
If these links were placed by an affiliate and you do not have a record of the purchase, the following information may help your accounting department trace them to the corresponding transactions: The links pointed to your page http://acnezine.abc-herbal.com/ through a redirect from the posted links to http://treat1.hs4free.info.
Please keep in mind that according to the terms of service assented to by the posting party, our fees are the responsibility of the company advertised, whether placed by an affiliate or an employee. If an affiliate has misrepresented him/herself as an authorized representative of your company, you may be entitled to recover these fees from that affiliate. To prevent further billing, you or the affiliate may remove any and all links; we do not in any way compel the use of our advertising services. If you cannot contact the affiliate for some reason, we will honor and process removal instructions on your behalf, PROVIDED THEY ARE RECEIVED WITHIN 10 DAYS OF THIS NOTICE, AND PROVIDED YOUR ACCOUNT IS IN GOOD STANDING AND THIS INITIAL INVOICE IS PAID ON TIME. If those conditions are both met, no further invoicing will occur.
Our terms are Net 10 days. To avoid late fees, collection agency surcharges, attorney's fees and/or court costs, remit via PayPal to the account of BILLING@Jabootu.COM by Tuesday, 12/5/2006.
Thank you,
Jabootu.com Advertising Sales
billing@Jabootu.com
[*Individual days are the smallest timeperiod we offer, thus partial days are billed at the daily rate. After 10 paid days, accounts in good standing may be eligible for discounts if over 30 days worth of link exposure are purchased.]
"...You know perfectly well what is the matter with you. You have known it for years, though you have fought against the knowledge. You are mentally deranged." |
|
|
Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 5:25:29 PM
|
Oh dude, that's great. Go.
Although the people responsible probably are well out of US jurisdiction. Otherwise I'd set up a site for the sole purpose of nailing spammers like that. Wow.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
 |
|
|
Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 6:47:07 PM
|
Why do spammers do it anyway? No body WANTS the crap they promote and they KNOW it. That's why they go through such pains to disguise the spam. And spamming will just piss people off so they would'nt want to buy from them anyway. Didn't they learn anything from telemarketing?
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
|
|
|
Paul LoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 6:58:10 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
Oh dude, that's great. Go.
Although the people responsible probably are well out of US jurisdiction. Otherwise I'd set up a site for the sole purpose of nailing spammers like that. Wow.
That's why I hope that a juicy 90% commission on a $10/link/day bounty will motivate some legal genius to find a way to sink teeth into these bastards. I'm sure that if it's even possible, it would take more work & knowlege of the system than I could possibly provide myself. But there *has* to be a workable attack vector somehow; these people do engage in financial transactions through the Visa system, so no matter how convoluted, there ultimately *is* a money trail leading to the perps.
At $10/link/day, a post with 18 links bills out at $5400 / month. 90% of that is $4860. If it takes a bright, efficeint person, say, 40 hours of research & effort to make this happen, that would be a return of over $120.00 per hour to successfully collect on a 1-month invoice. If that's not enough ROI, I can always up the price tenfold or so; they're my friggin' terms and conditions, after all, and nobody *has* to click the "agree" button if they find our rates exorbitant.
"...You know perfectly well what is the matter with you. You have known it for years, though you have fought against the knowledge. You are mentally deranged." |
|
|
|
Meagen
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
Poland
93 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 04:58:14 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Greenhornet
Why do spammers do it anyway? No body WANTS the crap they promote and they KNOW it. That's why they go through such pains to disguise the spam. And spamming will just piss people off so they would'nt want to buy from them anyway. Didn't they learn anything from telemarketing?
The disguise is to get it past the ISPs and into people's inboxes. At that point, the "somebody somewhere will fall for it" principle takes over. If they piss off 10000 people and one idiot sees the ad and goes "Oooh, cheap viagra!" and gives them money, it's still a net gain for them. |
|
|
|
Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 6:51:04 PM
|
One spammer was discovered. His neighbors signed him up for 300 magizine subscriptions and vandalised his house as well as threatened him with bodily harm. He was also fined and jailed. The asshole told a reporter that he would start spamming again as soon as possible.
I hope he loses it all in a lawsuit.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
|
|
|
Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 7:19:44 PM
|
My guess is that these entities are judgment proof. It may not be difficult to get a court to award you the damages you want. But the problem may be getting the money out of them.
Pip |
|
|
|
Paul LoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 11:52:19 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pip
My guess is that these entities are judgment proof. It may not be difficult to get a court to award you the damages you want. But the problem may be getting the money out of them.
Pip
My guess would be the same. However, I can't totally relinquish hope of retaliation ever since that guy wrote that book about making his living suing telemarketers. You know, just for that "someday" when some chap figures out a way to get monetary leverage against these guys.
"...You know perfectly well what is the matter with you. You have known it for years, though you have fought against the knowledge. You are mentally deranged." |
|
|
|
mpollack
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 09:30:24 AM
|
Hey, sorry for being silent for so long.
I'm still in law school, which means that I cannot represent you in court. But if you can wait another couple of weeks, maybe I can do some research on what your chances are. In the meantime, I will try to talk to my contracts professor about this today or tomorrow.
Will talk later....
MPollack
Oh, and at sunset we invade France. Just because.
The Democrats are politicizing the end of the world. |
|
|
|
mpollack
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 2:36:32 PM
|
One thing you should do, if you are serious about litigation, is to collect as much evidence as you can. Save every piece of spam, including those in the filters, and any replies or posts. Save every header. Save every complaint message, every report of utilized space and bandwidth, every server outage, every software damage, and every report of people leaving the forums because of spam. You also want to save and document any correspondence you had with any of the spammers, and any measures you took to combat or clear the spam.
If you didn't write to them telling them to stop, you may want to do so now. Be sure that you send it to the right people (spammers are notorious for hiding their identity) and keep a copy for your records. Keep it polite and straightforward. I would also send letters to the advertisers and the people who make the product.
If you deleted or lost any of the above, or if there was no record (i.e. phone call), write everything you can remember about it on a piece of paper and document when you wrote it and that you are relying on memory.
MPollack
Oh, and at sunset we invade France. Just because.
The Democrats are politicizing the end of the world. |
|
|
|
Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 6:16:38 PM
|
Paul, I would think that you will need to list your payment and billing terms (i.e. check/credit card/pay pal, billing is done on a monthly basis). To add a little fun, I would add a penalty for failure to pay in the approved time period. One final thing is to state that the spammers are responsible for removing their own advertising links and will continue to incur costs until done.
It's an interesting idea and I wish you luck. |
|
|
|
Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 5:47:25 PM
|
Here's some cases:
http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2006/04/advertiser_not.htm
Based on the above blog post, it looks like there are some folks making a go of your idea - might be interesting to search on other cases they've filed. Looks like you've got a couple of thingies to do:
1. Prove that the advertiser knew they were hiring a spammer
2. Prove that the spammer was not in "violation" of the contract
between the advertiser and the spammer
3. Figuring out whether forum spamming is covered under CAN-SPAM
Pip |
|
|
|
hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 8:44:22 PM
|
Hey Pip - that was post #200 - congrats.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://www.henrybrennan.com/
|
|
|
|
Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 09:53:07 AM
|
| Pip, I think with regards to point 1., Paul LoJ would just have to notify the entity that he was receiving spam from another party. That puts the company in a touchy situation, I would think. If they do nothing, they are tacitly supporting the spamming and they might be relinquishing trademark/copyright protections (you have to challenge every infringement you know about). In other words, when it is a third party doing the spamming, Paul might be able to get the first company to do the work. This should also take care of the second point, since if the spam continues, the company is obviously not taking steps to control its third party. Point three is a good question. |
|
|
|
Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 12:40:55 PM
|
Guys....i hope you go all MORBO on their butts!
"May death come slowly and with great agony to all your enemies!"
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
|
|
|
|
Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 12:01:16 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by hbrennan
Hey Pip - that was post #200 - congrats.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://www.henrybrennan.com/
But holy cardinal of the what what? I want to be known simply as the Nun of Jabootu, the Nunny Bunny of Bad Movies.
Pip |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked