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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2006 : 09:51:35 AM
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I hope Ken will once again forgive me for using up his bandwidth to shill for my crappy blog, but I enjoyed the new Bond film so much that I ached to produce one of my insanely long reviews of same:
http://usualsuspect.blogspot.com/
I hope that anyone who was mildly interested in my old stuff would be interested in taking a look at this. |
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Tork_110
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 08:22:58 AM
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Worth the wait!
I haven't been able to see the movie but I can't wait for it to come out on DVD. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 4:09:17 PM
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A very interesting read. Just one thing: From what I read from your review, Rob, I think I don't see Bond as you do. You seem to believe him quite a good-natured and likeable person. Certainly I don't see him that way, which is one of the reasons I did like Brosnan's portrait of Bond, although the Bond movies during his tenure are very uneven.
I haven't read many Ian Fleming books, but Bond has always struck me as a quite brutal person, something that may be explained by his inner ghosts, his loneliness and his fear of failing. Those who have seen / read A her majesty's secret service may understand what I mean, and we do get some nice foreshadowing (thankfully not complete explanations) of his future behaviour in this last film.
For this reason I've always enjoyed Bond at his most ruthless, not because I enjoy gratuitous violence (which I do), but because Bond seems to me more human when he is portrayed in this fashion than we he see him at his more civilised.
Certainly this brutality and inner fragility are not always clearly visible under the playboy / lounge lizard disguise, but it's there, even in the Roger Moore era. Just wath Moore / Bond at the beginning of For your eyes only, masks off, mourning Tracy, or his face of contempt when he murders that goon in the roofs of Turkey in The spy who loved me. Or how he inmediately discards belonging to the same class than Scaramanga in The man with the golden man, almost as if that words from Scaramanga had hit home.
See, Bond portrayed as good natured person doesn't work for me. I don't feel it works the few times it's been tried, like in The living daylights. It's a great movie, I agree, but that man in the tuxedo is not Bond. |
Edited by - Neville on 12/20/2006 4:14:09 PM |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 10:58:38 AM
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Neville,
Let me elaborate a bit more, because believe it or not we are probably in very close agreement on this point.
What I mean by likeability is this. Almost all of Fleming's novels are written in the third person, but all the action is narrated using Bond's perspective. Thus at all times we know what Bond is thinking and what he is feeling. And far from being some dour, ice-blooded killing machine always thinking of plugging someone or slashing someone's throat, he spends most of his time thinking about food, cars, his favorite clothes, and how much he enjoys boozing it up with his buddies. In other words, when he's not on the job he seems like a pretty down-to-earth likeable even ordinary guy. There are fictional characters that sit around thinking about killing and how many to kill and how important killing people is to them - characters like Mike Hammer, for instance - but Bond is certainly not one of those.
This movie is making me rethink the older movies because, while I agree with you that these brutal moments in the series are among the high-points, my reason for seeing them as such has changed. I don't for a minute want Bond to turn into some dopey, happy-go-lucky boozer like Dean Martin in the Matt Helm movies. These moments of viciousness are unmistakeably part of Bond's character given his profession. My name's going to be mud with the ladies after this, but I think the bit in On Her Majesty's Secret Service where Bond smacks Tracey a good one is a wonderful realistic touch - very much in character. Now, however, I'm starting to think that these moments stand out so much because, given the strong tendency of the series to become overblown and absurd, these moments look realistic and serious in comparison. They can all of a sudden make Bond look like an actual human being with actual emotions instead of being some indestructible, impossibly suave superman.
So once again, I by no means want to see these moments disappear from the series. I guess in the end what I find so "likeable" about Craig's Bond is the fact that he seems to be about as close to a flesh-and-blood living human being as we've seen to date in the series. I hate to say it, but even Connery was turning into an obnoxious know-it-all by the time of Goldfinger. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 12:24:24 PM
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Understood. It's just than when I heard the words "Bond" and "likeable" in the same sentence I cringe. I don't think the man is the psycho that some film critics think he is, but I wouldn't want him among my friends, even at his least volatile.
Another think: I don't think Judi Dench's M is that bad. Sure in most of her appearences she's just there to piss off Bond (and us), but when she is more participant in the plot the character gets far more interesting. I still remember her in Tomorrow never dies urging Bond to sleep with his former girlfriend if he has to in order to accomplish his mission, or her face of approval when she sees him killing some treacherous bitch in The world is not enough.
She may play the troubled bureucrat to keep Bond within tolerable, not publicly embarrasing limits, but I think she's as cold blooded and determined to get the jobs done as Bond is.
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Edited by - Neville on 12/21/2006 12:35:57 PM |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 10:36:07 AM
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R. Dittmar : I think your point about Bond's social , off duty life helps explain his loyalty to the Crown.
If he were a cold hearted killer, he might be working for SPECTOR or SMERSH rather then aginst them
I think of the scene in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, where he and Tanaka are viewing the photo of the ship. Bond seems offended at the murder of the innocent tourist, that SPECTOR comitted, as "A precaution". This precaution inadvertantly causes the downfall of the operation, as keeping the photo provides a clue for the good guys.
Bond has a Englishmans sence or respectability, and fairness, that contridicts the villians love of power Uber Allies.
Your thoughts, guys?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
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Edited by - Flangepart on 12/26/2006 10:37:13 AM |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 1:37:20 PM
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Yeah, I don't get the Dench hate. I thought it was pretty clear that she had a great deal of affection for Bond (even in his Brosnan incarnation), she was just required to be strict with him. I don't think it's a coincidence that Bond calls her "Mum" in this one.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 04:36:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
I don't think it's a coincidence that Bond calls her "Mum" in this one.
Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]!
Not mum but 'ma'am' - what a well bought up Englishman of the old school would call a female superior. (See Helen Mirren in Prime Suspect - "don't call me ma'am, I'm not the queen).
Can I just say how much I enjoyed your review of Casino Royal, R Dittmar, and indeed all your Bond reviews (please finish off the series at some point). However, I do think you miss the point of M's admonition to Bond "You're leaving a train of bodies". Apart from the three killed by his own hand, there is also the woman tortured to death; but also M is more concerned about the fact that Bond broke into the Embassy of a sovereign country to kill the terrorist; thus violating international law.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 6:44:33 PM
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From the previews, they have the "00" thing wrong by saying that Bond had killed two people in the line of duty. In Flemming's books it was explained that an agent COULD BE assigned "00" clearance after he/she had been ASSIGNED to kill THREE people. Double Ohs are the (Fictional) assasination squad and "lisenced to kill" translates more directly as "detailed to kill".
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2006 : 9:46:54 PM
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He definitely says "mum", unless I have the worst ears ever. I've seen the movie three times now. And exactly how well-brought up is Bond? At this point he's still got some rough edges on him.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2006 : 04:40:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
He definitely says "mum", unless I have the worst ears ever. I've seen the movie three times now. And exactly how well-brought up is Bond? At this point he's still got some rough edges on him.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]!
Well "ma'am" is often pronounced as "mum". And Bond may have some rough edges, but he is an old public school boy.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 3:43:40 PM
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I wanted to pass this along in response to some of the kvetching about my dislike of "M". It's a very funny takedown of Die Another Day:
http://debrief.commanderbond.net/index.php?showtopic=7193
He constantly mentions a fact about "M" that I truly never picked up on through the Brosnan films. "M" always has a glass of booze in her hand during her scenes!
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 05:39:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Culfy
quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
He definitely says "mum", unless I have the worst ears ever. I've seen the movie three times now. And exactly how well-brought up is Bond? At this point he's still got some rough edges on him.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]!
Well "ma'am" is often pronounced as "mum". And Bond may have some rough edges, but he is an old public school boy.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com
Seen it again last night; it's definitely Ma'am but with more of a northern English action so without the longer 'a'
As an aside M haters nearly had their wish about a year ago. I was with my girl friend browsing a book tent when we saw a huge crowd of people walking towards us. My girlfriend turned to get out of the way; nearly knocking over the person at the front of the crowd with her backpack; that person being Dame Judi herself.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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