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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2007 : 07:18:00 AM
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Or how profanity can swamp a film.
I just saw this film over the weekend. It had great possibilities, yet when every other word is a swear word or crude reference, it severely detracts from the experience.
- While science has societal benefits, science is not a social virtue. - |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 10:26:17 AM
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I don't think the foul language has anyhting to do with that, but I also found it a disapointment. See, the ironic thing is that probably, if you seriously consider it, it should be a far better film than, say, Gangs of New York, because it has more solid foundations and it hasn't had any troubled production, but somehow I found it less satisfying.
With all its faults, you could notice in Gangs of New York how Scorsese was full of illusion for the project, and how he would try 110% to get things working, even if they didn't work in the end. But The Departed just didn't work for me. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 2:29:06 PM
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I thought the film really needed an editor to do some trimming and streamlining of the story. Plus they needed an ending. The way it was, the story just stopped. The script could have used a rewrite or two.
I don't know of anyone who talks the way these characters talked on a consistent basis (and I've done some factory floor work.) I'm not saying it was the complete reason the film failed, but I think it contributed. Actually, I think it gets back to having an editor. At some point someone should have said, "I think you made the point these are rough men back in about the first 10 minutes."
- While science has societal benefits, science is not a social virtue. - |
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cschack
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Norway
124 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 2:54:50 PM
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I urge you to watch the original movie, "Infernal Affairs", on which "The Departed" is based. It's a perfectly constructed clockwork of suspense and doublecrosses. And it clocks in at a wonderfully lean 90 minutes.
Happy new year, all, btw.
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Ein joik har større kraft enn krutt!
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 03:12:19 AM
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| I second that. |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 9:02:04 PM
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Gee. Well, I thought The Departed was one of the best movies in Scorsese's career, which is really saying something. You $%&@*&ing &$*#%@er.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 03:27:56 AM
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| I liked it, the profanity makes no difference to me one way or another. I felt that it only fell down toward the end with some plot developments that didn't ring true and character behaviour which didn't make too much sense. |
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twitterpate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 09:00:38 AM
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The problem with profanity is that its purpose in speech is to be prohibited. That gives it its "shock value" when used. Therefore, like a fine spice, it needs to be used with a judicious hand; too much, and the palate becomes numbed.
OK, to stop belabouring that metaphor, if you have a character utter a profanity once, it has an effect - it's noticable, and can illuminate much about the character. For example, this exchange from The Right Stuff:
Chuck Yeager (laconically, before setting off to break the sound barrier): I think I dinged up my g**-d***ed ribs.
Other character (thoughtfully): How bad you ding 'em?
Chuck Yeager: You could say I broke the s*** of b*****s.
On the other hand, if you have all the characters swearing all the time (and using the same two or three words OVER and OVER), all you learn about them is that they swear a lot. It may perhaps be realistic, but the most "realistic" dialogue is rarely the most revealing. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 10:00:40 AM
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Hummm...kind of like LOCK, STOCK,AND TWO SMOKEING BARRELS. Too much swearing for me. Fits the kind of people we're dealing with ( Mad, bad, and dangerious), but annoying . Still, what do you expect from such simple, if cunning, minds?
Oh, and GOODFELLAS too.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 10:55:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by twitterpate
On the other hand, if you have all the characters swearing all the time (and using the same two or three words OVER and OVER), all you learn about them is that they swear a lot. It may perhaps be realistic, but the most "realistic" dialogue is rarely the most revealing.
It depends on the context of the character and the quality of writing. And the acting. Sam Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction would not have been as remotely memorable or enjoyable without the colorful language- but it was his portrayal that made it work. And of course, creative profanity was also integral to R. Lee Ermy's DI in Full Metal Jacket, as well as being historically accurate. Joe Pesci can also make swearing an art (though I thought it was misguided to use it in My Cousin Vinnie).
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
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RossM
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 11:12:10 AM
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I agree. It depends on the character and the importance of that character's language to his character and to the story. Cussing just for the sake of shock value offends the ear and stalls the story. Its a crutch for incompitent movie makers. Just look how Alfred Hitchcock got around the Hayes commission and created some of the sexiest scenes in movie history without showing any sex at all. On the other hand I agree that Pulp Fiction without the cussing would be a different and not nearly as witty or as compelling a movie.
rossM |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 12:33:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Or how profanity can swamp a film.
I just saw this film over the weekend. It had great possibilities, yet when every other word is a swear word or crude reference, it severely detracts from the experience.
Terrahawk,
You've really hit on one of my biggest pet peeves about movies today. There is nothing more annoying than sitting through a non-stop 2 hour barrage of F-bombs. I'm with you in believing that no one in the real world talks that way. People in Hollywood think that's how us rubes in flyover country talk and never having met one of the little people themselves, they can't be dissuaded from thinking profanity is "authentic". I'd wager that if you ever did find a group of people who spoke that way, it would be because they had been watching too many obscenity-laced movies and were imitating them.
And what makes it even worse is that there is absolutely no reason for excess profanity in a movie. You can usually make an argument that strong violence or steamy sexual material has some artistic merit and reason for inclusion in a movie, but who in the world leaves a movie and says – “I would have really liked that movie if only they had used the F-word about 400 more times.”?
I’ve always thought that a lot of the swearing is due to the fact that foul-mouthed hamolas like Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro will see a line of dialogue in the script like “Let’s go get lunch” and then show up on the set and say “You effing-effer, let’s effing get some effing lunch.” and no one on the set will make him read the lines as written. It just seems so ludicrous to write dialogue like that. Do they write a script and then do a search and replace on the spaces to insert variations of the F-word? |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 6:00:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
And of course, creative profanity was also integral to R. Lee Ermy's DI in Full Metal Jacket, as well as being historically accurate.
Not only that, but it made his character very ANOYING and unlikable by the second scene. Thus we didn't give a (fill in long list of profanity here) when he was murdered which I think was the intention.
But compare it to PATTON which was ground-breaking in it's use of cusswords. But in THAT movie the cussing was used naturaly and easily as REAL people would, without the aura of "hey look how F-ING edgy and shocking we are!" of the pictures mentioned above.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
Edited by - Greenhornet on 01/05/2007 6:05:00 PM |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 9:40:19 PM
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Maybe its a regional thing but I've actually found that there really are plenty of people who swear that much in 'the real world', if not more. It's a lot more tiresome in real life than on a movie screen. Maybe I'm desensitised when it comes to movies but I barely even notice profanity. To be honest I can't recall their being that much profanity in the Departed, probably for that reason. In life the same kind of language would bother me a lot more, however, probably because it usually streams from the mouths of tedious and unpleasant people more than the actual words themselves upset me. In the context of movie I'm enjoying I'm not really that bothered. It's kind of like violence in movies. I'm not that bothered by it but seeing violence in real life is different.
As other have said profanity laden dialogue can actually work- Pulp Fiction, Full Metal Jacket etc. Another example of profane dialogue that works would be the TV series Deadwood. I've found there to be something almost poetic about the dialogue in the show at times. On the other side of the coin I have seen stuff where swearing is used as an alternative to wit when it comes to dialogue but that is more of a case of bad writing being the problem than the swearing.
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Gristle McThornbody
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Germany
186 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 2:35:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Or how profanity can swamp a film.
I just saw this film over the weekend. It had great possibilities, yet when every other word is a swear word or crude reference, it severely detracts from the experience.
Terrahawk,
You've really hit on one of my biggest pet peeves about movies today. There is nothing more annoying than sitting through a non-stop 2 hour barrage of F-bombs. I'm with you in believing that no one in the real world talks that way. People in Hollywood think that's how us rubes in flyover country talk and never having met one of the little people themselves, they can't be dissuaded from thinking profanity is "authentic". I'd wager that if you ever did find a group of people who spoke that way, it would be because they had been watching too many obscenity-laced movies and were imitating them.
And what makes it even worse is that there is absolutely no reason for excess profanity in a movie. You can usually make an argument that strong violence or steamy sexual material has some artistic merit and reason for inclusion in a movie, but who in the world leaves a movie and says – “I would have really liked that movie if only they had used the F-word about 400 more times.”?
I’ve always thought that a lot of the swearing is due to the fact that foul-mouthed hamolas like Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro will see a line of dialogue in the script like “Let’s go get lunch” and then show up on the set and say “You effing-effer, let’s effing get some effing lunch.” and no one on the set will make him read the lines as written. It just seems so ludicrous to write dialogue like that. Do they write a script and then do a search and replace on the spaces to insert variations of the F-word?
Watch Nil By Mouth. It's English, uses "f#ck" almost 500 times, and is a damned good movie. Plus, according to its writer/director, Gary Oldman, and several of it's actors, it's a fairly accurate depiction of how people talk and act in the section of London in which Oldman grew up.
Whether you think it's accurate or not, there ARE people who talk like that in real life.
"Hi, I'm Bob Evil!" |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2007 : 2:48:08 PM
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Though I had no problem with the language in The Departed, Terrahawk and R. Dittmar have a good point.
I've been in places where people use language that would have Joe Pesci in Goodfellas blushing with shame. It doesn't occur that often, but you will find it. Swearing in mob circles and such is no problem. Same thing with Glengarry Glen Ross; I've had the misfortune to have worked in a sales office for a short time (and I hope never to have to go there again), and the language is every bit as bad as Mamet depicted it.
That said, most movies that drop the f-bomb left and right are pretty gratuitous. There are a lot of really good movies out there whose only real flaw is an overabundance of profanity. Here's a memo to writers, actors, and directors: unless you have the raw talent of Mamet or Scorsese or the like, watch your mouth, please. |
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