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brandywine
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
56 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2007 : 5:36:57 PM
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You know, the movie-length epic where Hawkeye has his eleven-millionth mental breakdown to be cured by that ever-present shrink whose training seems to have consisted of reading The Idiot's Guide to Freud? Then we learn War is Bad, mmmkay? and Hawk and Seventies-Porn-'stash hug and go home for a reunion with their great-grandchildren. Goodbye, farewell, GOOD RIDDANCE.
I salute you, Alan Alda! Cause this one time I was like totally gonna intervene militarily in the civil war of a small Asian nation when I in my mind I saw Hawkeye waving his phallic, tongue-depressor tower of sanctimony at me and I knew in my heart all war is futile. Boy, were the generals pissed! |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 6:57:21 PM
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Hey now, if you had fought the Korean War for 11 years without a break you'd have an attitude too *g*
Really, that's a great idea- I'd love to see that one taken apart. The show was funny enough in its first couple years to rise above the attitude but by the end it was beyond insufferable.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 7:52:56 PM
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It has been said that M.A.S.H. jumped the shark when they stopped trying to win Emmys and started trying to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Similarly, it was said that Archie Bunker jumped the shark when the show's writers and producers realized that Americans liked Archie Bunker's character. People started sporting "Archie Bunker for President" bumper stickers and whatnot. The writers and producers had an agenda that just didn't seem to be getting through. You weren't supposed to like Archie and agree with him that his daughter and son-in-law were complete idiots.
So they started writing the stories so that Archie would "learn" something. "Grow" as a person. We like our curmudgeonly grandfather figures just the way they are, so the show died off. |
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brandywine
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
56 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 8:23:28 PM
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quote:
Similarly, it was said that Archie Bunker jumped the shark when the show's writers and producers realized that Americans liked Archie Bunker's character.
The same thing happened with me and Frank Burns. "We're here fighting for the UN, which personally I have nothing against except that it's full of foreigners." Keep 'em honest, Ferret Face!
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 10:06:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Citizen Carrier
It has been said that M.A.S.H. jumped the shark when they stopped trying to win Emmys and started trying to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Similarly, it was said that Archie Bunker jumped the shark when the show's writers and producers realized that Americans liked Archie Bunker's character. People started sporting "Archie Bunker for President" bumper stickers and whatnot. The writers and producers had an agenda that just didn't seem to be getting through. You weren't supposed to like Archie and agree with him that his daughter and son-in-law were complete idiots.
So they started writing the stories so that Archie would "learn" something. "Grow" as a person. We like our curmudgeonly grandfather figures just the way they are, so the show died off.
I've never been much of an All In The Family fan. It's not too surprising that people sympathized with Archie Bunker, IMO. Mike and Gloria — especially Mike — were so self-righteous and aggravating that Archie's remarks could seem like a normal reaction of someone who's tired of all the preaching. And wouldn't Mike EXPECT Archie to make a bigoted remark now and then after he's known him for any length of time?
My friend Diane is pretty liberal, and I'm pretty conservative. We both try to keep politics out of our discussions, because we're not gonna see eye-to-eye on some things, and we're mature enough to not let it become a sticking point in our relationship. We figured this out years ago. The cast of All In The Family never did, apparently. |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 12:52:12 AM
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It definately got preachy there.
Like every other form of entertainment, when an episode tried to push a "message," it sucked.
The one that sticks in my mind is an episode where a baby had been left at the 4077. The child was a offspring a Korean woman and a American GI. The padre said something to the effect, and don't hold me to this, that Korean culture would reject the child. The only hope for it was to give it to a nunery or send it to America.
Everyone's reaction is to send it to America. Ninty percent of the show was the officers trying and failing to get the kid to America. Hawkeye giving one of the reasons as "This child has MADE IN THE U.S.A stamped on it." Hey, it takes TWO to tango, Hawkeye. All the while we're subjected to speeches about how OTHER nations take in bastard children but Amerika doesn't.
In the end, they give it to the nunery and hope for the best.
Blah. Phewy. Bad taste. I need to brush my teeth.
________________________________________________________________________
"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 07:02:13 AM
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The shark jumping occured when they replaced Col. Blake and Trapper with Col Potter and B.J. The former two could be pretty sleazy while the latter two were boyscouts which started to make the show treacley and shoved it off on the slippery slope of sanctimony.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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brandywine
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
56 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 08:36:15 AM
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I've never been much of an All In The Family fan.
My problem with All In The Family is that it's hard to buy intergenerational conflict when "youth" is represented by fat, toupeed Rob Reiner. (My favorites are when Archie goes at it with the first George Jefferson.)
Which slides into MASH: Hawkeye was supposed to have been drafted right after he finished med school which mean LATE TWENTIES. I'll never understand why Alan Alda didn't even bother to dye his fully gray pate. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 10:03:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brandywine
I'll never understand why Alan Alda didn't even bother to dye his fully gray pate.
Acting!!!
[img]http://www.jeffpidgeon.com/uploaded_images/mastbaud-760448.jpg[/img]
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 10:48:33 AM
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Yup.
The harder you try to be profound, the more it slips through your fingers...or some such metaphore...
The show had a "Be kind to the lesser people" attitude to the Koreans. Yeesh!
Remember the one with the wounded pilot, and Hawkeye wanted to make him realise hewas killing real people? Hello! The guy was a FIGHTER BOMBER jet jockey! F-80 or F-84! He KNEW he was strafing people! Hawk would never meet high altitude bomber pilots, they were in NORTH Korea! Man, that irritated me!
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
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brandywine
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
56 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 2:34:57 PM
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As long as we're discussing least favorites, there was another one with the shrink in which Hawkeye starts having these all these weird psychosomatic illnesses and we discover the root cause through Freudian-derepression therapy...the unspeakable memory is... wait for it:
His cousin pushed him off a boat when he was 7. No I'm not kidding. Then Hawkeye starts blubbering "HE PUSHED ME!!!! WAAAAHHH!" in a manner that made all the seven year girls in the audience shout "Christ! Grow a pair!" Hasn't this guy supposedly seen thousands of horribly, mutilated soldiers alive and dead? I'd think he'd have thicker skin.
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 7:20:14 PM
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I actually liked Col. Potter. He was an old solder who had seen action in both world wars (And it was suggested that he had been "on the border" durring our scrap with Mexico) and had to endure the young pups who thought they had all the answers.
Maj. Burns was a semi-realistic charicter. He was used to bring up some of the oppinions of Americans in the Fifties (Only to be shot dorwn by the oppinions of the Seventies) including the fact that many Americans thought that we should get out of the UN because communist Russia was useing it to help their "people's revolution" and others were trying to use it as THE world government.
Maj. "Hot Lips" was a character who should have been delved into more deeply. You would have to read the regulations governing the WACs to know what I mean, but you might remember the episode where she was VERY worried that she was pregnant even though she was married. This was because Pregnancy ment an AUTOMATIC MEDICAL DISCHARCE at the time, a disaster for a carreer officer Like Hollahan and a point they never brought up.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
Edited by - Greenhornet on 03/20/2007 7:21:09 PM |
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Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 10:06:46 PM
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Having seen MASH entirely in syndication (Nick @ Nite) and thus out of order, my impression was that the show didn't jump the shark (or "see the leprechaun" as my step-dad says whenever we say "jump the shark" around him) but rather gradually sank in one respect. From my own feelings, and from my impressions from others, what I think is that people didn't *hate* BJ, but rather just liked Trapper better. They didn't hate Winchester, but thought Burns was funnier. They didn't hate Potter, but rather liked...uh...whoever that distracted, bewildered guy who Potter replaced better.
Pip
"These five fingers: individually they're nothing, but when I curl them together like this into a single unit, they form a weapon that is terrible to behold!" - Lucy Van Pelt |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 01:14:36 AM
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Having seen both "MASH" and "All in the Family" when they first aired, I can say they were fantastic, ground breaking shows that came about at a pivotal time in our country's TV viewing history. But like most things popular - it's all about the money. They overstayed their welcome till the last nickel was squeezed out of them. One of the few times I've seen a show really go out in style was "Frazier" (and even then...)
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://www.henrybrennan.com/
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Edited by - hbrennan on 03/21/2007 01:15:16 AM |
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Altair IV
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Japan
110 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 08:48:39 AM
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Pip,
Remember that the phrase "jump the shark" really just means that the show has passed its apex, and it's all downhill from that point on. It doesn't mean that the episodes that follow it are necessarily bad, just that they're never as good as what came before. In other words, it's the point where it becomes clear that the show has lost that special *magic* that made it popular in the first place.
So I think it's fair to say that MASH gradually sinking after the Burns/Potter et al. transitions falls well within the definition. And by the end the show was almost a parody of its early years--or at least it would've been if it hadn't become so tedious to watch by that time.
I think the thing that did it in for me were all the "newsreel interview" episodes, where black & white character interviews were interspersed with scenes from previous shows. They may have been kind of clever the first couple of times, but after a while you realized that it was just a gimmick used to throw a cheaply-made filler episode into the mix. I got sick of them rather quickly. |
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Pip
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 11:47:21 AM
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Originally posted by Altair IV
Pip,
Remember that the phrase "jump the shark" really just means that the show has passed its apex, and it's all downhill from that point on. It doesn't mean that the episodes that follow it are necessarily bad, just that they're never as good as what came before. In other words, it's the point where it becomes clear that the show has lost that special *magic* that made it popular in the first place.
So I think it's fair to say that MASH gradually sinking after the Burns/Potter et al. transitions falls well within the definition. And by the end the show was almost a parody of its early years--or at least it would've been if it hadn't become so tedious to watch by that time.
I'll see, understand and agree with your point. What I was fumbling towards was that MASH seemed to slowly sink instead of going over a cliff. Which, as you say, is a form of shark jumping.
And, as others have pointed out, it wasn't just character changes that sank the show.
Pip
"These five fingers: individually they're nothing, but when I curl them together like this into a single unit, they form a weapon that is terrible to behold!" - Lucy Van Pelt |
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