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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2008 : 8:35:11 PM
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I agree that Kubrick should have won for 2001, although I have to admit that I can't fault someone for disliking the film. I think Kubrick was in some ways too subtle. I love the film, but it could be because I read the book first.
But my big eye-roller was Gladiator beating out Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Gladiator wasn't a bad film, but I think Ang Lee's was better,
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:51:42 AM
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Yeah, Gladiator was a good action spectacle that got out of hand when it started winning awards.
My big problem with Gladiator: it's supposed to be about how a lowly slave can, through sheer popularity, rise to become a threat to the Emperor himself. So wouldn't it have been more powerful, especially with all their talk of restoring the Republic and the wonders of democracy, to NOT have a scene where Marcus Aurelius basically grants Maximus the imperial throne before it gets snatched away from him? That turns the whole movie into nothing but a tale of one entitled member of the nobility trying to get back what was taken from him by another entitled member of the nobility, when it was playing with larger and more interesting ideas.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:28:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
So wouldn't it have been more powerful, especially with all their talk of restoring the Republic and the wonders of democracy, to NOT have a scene where Marcus Aurelius basically grants Maximus the imperial throne before it gets snatched away from him? That turns the whole movie into nothing but a tale of one entitled member of the nobility trying to get back what was taken from him by another entitled member of the nobility, when it was playing with larger and more interesting ideas.
If you recall, Maximus didn't want to be Caesar. In fact, when Marcus offers him the post, Maximus turns Marcus down. Maximus' motivation for wanting Commodus dead were the murders of Maximus' family as well as the murder of Marcus himself. Maximus was most definitely not seeking redress for his lost "entitlement".
Further, without that scene of Maximus being offered the Caesarship (so to speak), Commodus wouldn't have had a reason for killing Marcus, Maximus wouldn't have had a reason for suspecting Commodus of killing Marcus, and Commodus wouldn't have had a reason for killing Maximus.
In short, cut that one scene you cut the heart out of the whole movie.
What made Gladiator work on a character level was that its character was not some arrogant political careerist. Far from it. All Maximus cared about was returning to his wife and kid. He didn't want to be Caesar. He didn't even want to be a soldier anymore.
(And for the record, I thought Traffic should've won Best Picture, but there you go.) |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 03/15/2008 11:53:41 AM |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 6:54:59 PM
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IMHO everything that was good about Gladiator (barring the production values and Oliver Reed) was lifted wholesale from the old BBC I, Claudius series. And that would include Derek Jacobi.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 10:29:04 AM
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Well, not to rewrite the whole damn movie, but my solution to that would have been to have Maximus be a general for the opposing army, which loses--then his family's death, his enslavement, and his hatred of the Emperor all make perfect sense, and don't require those faintly ridiculous scenes of him riding all over Europe and North Africa in, what, a matter of hours?
It's true Maximus turns down the Imperial throne, but the principle is still there: the movie's trying to establish Maximus as Captain Awesome of Superiortown, a man born to rule, a Homeric hero regardless of his choices, who's only reduced to a slave because of betrayal. Yet to me the movie would actually be more powerful if he had started out as a nobody, at least within the Roman Empire, and risen to prominence by his actions alone. Making it into a simple revenge story waters it down a little, for me--for all the talk of "restoring the Republic", the story's framed so that Maximus only seems to care about his personal revenge. And a new Emperor's going to pop right up as soon as Commodus dies, so really he accomplished nothing.
A lot of the same tropes popped up in "Kingdom of Heaven", which annoyed me even more--again, the themes Scott was playing around with were interesting, but by trying to make the hero's motivation "personal" with a dead wife and an offer of kingship, he lost the more interesting (and in that case, true) story.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 8:28:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
Well, not to rewrite the whole damn movie...
And then you proceed to do so anyway. <g> We differ on this one, so I'll leave it at that.
One other minor point though:
quote:
And a new Emperor's going to pop right up as soon as Commodus dies, so really he accomplished nothing.
The line of Caesars is dissolved at the end of the movie, and the Roman senate takes control.
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Edited by - zombiewhacker on 03/16/2008 8:30:22 PM |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 8:29:57 PM
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As a sidenote, I find it interesting that there really was a Roman Caesar named Commodus, and believe it or not, the real-life Commodus did battle gladiators in the coliseum. He didn't die in the coliseum, though. That part was movie make believe. Also IIRC there's no evidence that the real Commodus killed his father, Marcus Aurelius.
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Edited by - zombiewhacker on 03/16/2008 8:31:02 PM |
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