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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2005 : 9:19:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville
From the outline, even that The Avengers film seemed a good idea. Ralph Fieenes and Uma Thurman? They've been konwn to act well in a number of films. Sean Connery as the villain? Wow, I'm impressed.
But then they had to write an awful mess of a script and hire the worst director available for the job. I can't believe they shot the villain's meeting, all dressed in teddy bears customes, as dead serious.
I wish the full story of The Avengers would appear somewhere. It would certainly be far more entertaining than the movie.
Its clear just from watching it, that it was butchered to the point of complete incomprehensibility. Remember the whole subplot involving Connery's obsession with Mrs. Peel? How does he even know her? Why is he obsessed to the point of hanging huge portraits of her in his home? There are clearly several yards of exposition that ended up on the cutting room floor.
Although I can't vouch for the accuracy of this story, I have heard hints on the net that the actual villain of The Avengers was not Sean Connery at all! The true villain of the film was according to the rumors I've heard supposed to be Mr. Peel himself! Connery was supposed to be his henchman and the obsession with Emma was supposed to have stemmed from his relationship to Mr. Peel. Perhaps some minions can confirm this or offer further information. If true, The Avengers is the only action film in history to edit out the villain. (Except of course for Guy Ritchie's new film Revolver for which he was compelled to edit out his snaggle-toothed wife.) |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 10:33:27 PM
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And just to add insult to injury, all the clever visuals from Bram Stoker's Dracula were swiped from White Zombie.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 12:16:36 AM
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"Van Helsing" did have a lot of potential that was wasted by characters having nothing to do and a plot where stuff just happened. Walking out after seeing this movie, I was actually angry that I'd wasted my time watching it.
Although I have defended them elsewhere, "The Matrix" sequels could have been a whole lot better. To summarise, they were over-funded, over-hyped and over-thought and few people who saw them walked out happy. I can enjoy them now, having watched them a few times and knowing what to expect, but they were a disappointment.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "The Punisher" (2004) |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 12:59:30 AM
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quote:
originally posted by John Nowak:
And just to add insult to injury, all the clever visuals from Bram Stoker's Dracula were swiped from White Zombie.
...and without even the decency to give us something truly disturbing - like the "zombie falling into the sugar mill" while the others take no notice and keep on working. (which is a scene swiped from my job)
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://henrybrennan.blogspot.com/ |
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Cullen
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 02:02:44 AM
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I don't know... Here I was thinking Buchanan's It's Alive, which never ends (I know; I'm still watching it) or Hobgoblin or Supergamera. Something that causes damage to the soul and mind...
Cullen! Super Genius and All Around Great Guy
As if the world hasn't had enough of my nonsense, I now blog: http://welltuncares.blogspot.com/
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Monkey
Archdeacon of Jabootu
Ireland
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 06:00:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dconner
Van Helsing is the best recent example of a movie that *should* have worked pretty well, but didn't.
Am I the only person in the world that enjoyed van helsing?
Is there anyone else out there in Jabootuland that will admit to having found that film a not altogether unpleasant way to pass a couple of hours? |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 07:13:21 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by hbrennan
...and without even the decency to give us something truly disturbing - like the "zombie falling into the sugar mill" while the others take no notice and keep on working. (which is a scene swiped from my job)
Oh, that was my favorite moment.
I think another, recent disappointment was Troy. I've got to say that having a sympathetic character paraphrase Hitler was not the best move.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 10:25:04 AM
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Interesting topic. On one hand, I never understand, for the most part, why people get so angry with a film being made. If you don't want to see it, no one is forcing you to. So if they want to make a sequel to "The Punisher", don't go. If they are making another Police Academy sequel, make other plans for that weekend. However, I think there are exceptions.
1) If a sequel completely screws up the narrative of a previous film. For example (SPOILER ALERT) the beginning of Alien 3 completely undoes the heroics of Aliens. Ripley saving Newt simply puts off the inevitable.
2) If a movie completely blows a chance to show you something that you always wanted to see. For instance, if you were a big Punisher fan, and the Thomas Jane version sucked, you aren't going to get the Punisher movie you wanted.
Which brings me to my vote for most badly botched movie:
Pearl Harbor.
Now, I didn't think that Michael Bay was the best guy for the project, so I harbored (pun intended) no illusions that we were going to see greatness. But I loved "Tora Tora Tora" so much, and am such a WW2 buff, that I really was looking forward to "Pearl Harbor". Obviously I was disappointed. Now I don't have to watch the movie, but my main problem is that it will be at least another 20 years, if ever, before anyone is going to do another movie on Pearl Harbor. So thanks Mr. Bay, for fumbling my generations opportunity for a high tech treatment of Pearl Harbor. |
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PaulaJohnson
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:05:57 AM
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I wholeheartedly concur with so many folks here, just consider a general "ditto" to y'all, rather than my listing and praising your astute observations.
But I'm surprised I haven't seen this one yet...
Being a HUGE fan of the series of novels, I think that the 1984 "Dune" was a major disappointment. It had promise, but there were so many "What were they thinking" moments. Can't buy McLachlan as Paul. Or Sean Young (although this could be my general bias toward her, she just raises my hackles for some reason) as Chani. Why was Ali's voice dubbed at the end? Why was David Lynch (or Toto, wasn' it?) involved at ALL? (I'm not commenting on Lynch's abilities as a director in general, just for DUNE?)
It coulda been a good movie. It coulda been a contendah. There was some inspired casting - Patric Stewart (chewing scenery, but still vastly enjoyable), Brad Dourif, Linda Hunt, Dean Stockwell... There were some nifty effects. There was an amazing overarching mythology to work with. Geez, what happened?
In my humble opinion, Peter Jackson proved you can take a dense series of books and piece together something amazing. Granted Jackson chucked entire huge portions of LoTR, but I think he overall did so effectively. Lynch did not even come close to pulling that off.
Oh, and I want to clarify - I actually liked the music Toto provided for Dune. (Me = geek.) It was kind of a "Hawk the Slayer" conundrum, though - great music, but it doesn't match anything, and what the hell is it doing in THIS movie?
I came, I saw, I was really too tired to deal with it so I just went to bed. |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 12:03:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulaJohnson
Being a HUGE fan of the series of novels, I think that the 1984 "Dune" was a major disappointment. It had promise, but there were so many "What were they thinking" moments. Can't buy McLachlan as Paul. Or Sean Young (although this could be my general bias toward her, she just raises my hackles for some reason) as Chani.
Let us not forget the casting of an inexperienced rock star in one of the key villian roles, and the snicker-inducing "riding the sandworm" scene which looked like an outtake from the tommy Bartlett Ski Show, and the 'native advisor' character who was a direct ripoff of the leader of the Hawkmen from Flash Gordon....
So many bad things in that movie. So little time. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 12:49:08 PM
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Starship Troopers
Ok, I loved the book as a kid and still enjoy it as an adult. Explain to me how a movie can follow the general outline of the book and still stink to high heaven. Can I accept some of the changes to the book like the addition of women into the MI? Sure. But Verhoeven took the movie and decided to make another Robocop installment.
- How can you not have power armor? That was the best technology piece from the book. The MI aren't too mobile without it. The visuals from just doing a combat drop would be great.
- The bugs in the book were intelligent with technology. One of Heinlein's questions in the book was if individuals could cooperate enough to compete against a completely organised society (hence the bug mind)
- Stupid, stupid, stupid military tactics. A guy from the Civil War would have done better with strategy. Did I mention the tactics were stupid?
I could go on, but I'll stop. I know some people think the film is great, but it really could have been more than cartoonish violence and a sophomoric love story.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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dconner
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 3:09:53 PM
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quote:
- How can you not have power armor? That was the best technology piece from the book. The MI aren't too mobile without it. The visuals from just doing a combat drop would be great.
- The bugs in the book were intelligent with technology. One of Heinlein's questions in the book was if individuals could cooperate enough to compete against a completely organised society (hence the bug mind)
- Stupid, stupid, stupid military tactics. A guy from the Civil War would have done better with strategy. Did I mention the tactics were stupid?
As you say, the movie has other problems, but the latter two, I think, stem from making a defensible decision on the first, but then not thinking through all the logical ramifications.
As I understand it, Verhoeven considered and rejected power armor for aesthetic and/or dramatic reasons (and probably budgetary reasons, too.) Which, cool as Heinlein's power armor is, that's a defensible move. But... it has implications you need to deal with, but the movie doesn't:
1. If the humans are downgraded, you need to downgrade the bugs too. OK, here, they thought things through that much, at least. But... if the bugs are basically just dumb critters, how are they a serious threat to Earth? Um, because they can somehow launch extremely powerful and accurate interstellar farts....
2. One feature of Heinlein's MI is that it was really a combined-arms package in one weapon platform. The MI performs the usual infantry tasks, but also provides its own armor, artillery and air support (up to and including nuclear weapons.) If you're going to make the MI more like regular infantry, then they're going to need *some* sort of separate armor and artillery, maybe fine-tuned orbital bombardment, etc. If not, the tactics don't make any sense.
Ultimately, it's a fairly common problem with adaptation. There are often good dramatic reasons to change things, but frequently, if you change that one thing, it also means you need to change some dependent bits to make everything hang together. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 4:43:42 PM
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dconner's summed up my feeling about the film Starship Troopers. Heinlein actually came up with a believable weapons system that just might be able to perform without much support on the ground; Veerhoven... turned them into riflemen.
One comment I saw was "Starship Troopersunderstands war about as well as Showgirls understands sex."
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 4:45:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Monkey
Am I the only person in the world that enjoyed van helsing?
Yes.
Just kidding. What bothered me about the film was its relentless predictability. You watch it and forget it before you can leave the theater. There just wasn't anything clever or unexpected in it.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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KreenWarrior
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
111 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 5:39:42 PM
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I enjoyed Van Helsing. Not that it was a good movie or anything, but I enjoyed it. Only 3 really big things wrong with it, in my opinion:
Dracula: Dracula should not wear a ponytail. Dracula should not look like an odd prettyboy thing. Dracula is without a doubt one of the most recognizeable, powerful premade villains in fiction. He should not be done badly. Oddly enough, I did enjoy him randomly walking up walls without effort. Thought it was a neat touch, and was actually a bit creepier than crawling up them Spiderman style like you'd expect.
Vampire Babies: Nothing about this aspect made sense. Zip. Nada.
What's-her-name, the heroine, randomly dying of a flying tackle after everything else that happened to her.
There's plenty of other problems, of course, but, even with those, it was a vaguely enjoyable movie to me. |
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