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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2006 : 12:46:36 AM
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It could have worked if Chris Carter and Glen Morgan possessed the discipline that Joe Straczynski had with Babylon 5; plan and execute a coherent story arc and make the episodes scripts advance the meta-story, rather than the other way around.
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee) |
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BlamWalker
Archdeacon of Jabootu
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2006 : 5:13:47 PM
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quote:
Roseanne, in the last season when they won the lottery. It already became way too dramatic and killed much of the humor, but having them become stinking rich by pure luck was like taking a crap on the show's entire premise.
Not only that, but once they won the lottery everything went out the window: Surprise! Roseanne's mom is a lesbian! Everybody's having babies! And, most disgustingly IMHO, Dan's a no-good philanderer! That last one angered me the most, because it was so unbelievably out-of-character. I couldn't in a million years see Dan Connor kanoodling with some other woman. Took me right out of the whole thing. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2006 : 6:24:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BrainFromArous
It could have worked if Chris Carter and Glen Morgan possessed the discipline that Joe Straczynski had with Babylon 5; plan and execute a coherent story arc and make the episodes scripts advance the meta-story, rather than the other way around.
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee)
Straczynski's 5th and final season of B5 though was pretty much trash. I know part of it was due to the fact that they didn't think they were going to get a 5th season and he tried to cram it into the 4th. But, overall, it was obvious that Straczynski had lost his ability to mold the series in interesting ways. He would have been better off stepping back and letting some fresh blood handle the final season. Losing Claudia Christian also hurt the show.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Matrixprime
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2006 : 7:37:44 PM
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Buffy was fine, but jumped the shark twice; once with the introduction of Adam (mainly because it seemed to be rushed, anticlimactic, and after the arc was done there wasn't lasting repercussions, unlike most arcs). It improved, but then the final 2 seasons after she died.
Terrhawk is right about B5; Season 1 was too generic, but they crammed so much into 4 in case 5 couldn't be done, that 5 was rather empty. Besides; anything after the Sheridan Torture episode was a let down - that was a beautifully scripted episode.
As a Game toss in, to broaden the scope, the Final Fantasy games jumped with 8. Up until that point the series was beautifully scripted, had gripping characters, and a ton of customization. The sheer amount of people going ballistic of Aeris dying was proof of that. But 8 eliminated equipment, reduced the point of levelling (monsters got more powerful when you did) and made all the characters angsty goth tards. 9 seemed like they were forcing themselves to go old school (admittedly I played little of it, as my PS burnt out soon after buying it), 10 was linear, X-2 was even more so, and 11 is online, so I've never tried it.
In a sci-fi vein, I'd have to say Enterprise after the first season.
The first season was fine, had decent stories and a likable cast, I thought. The ones I saw were pretty well written and fit OK. They also took ORIGINAL story approaches, something that TNG could never understand.
Then after season 1 didn't do as well as they hoped, they dog-piled the usual Star Trek cliches. They met future selves, alternate selves, they introduced a new menace (the multi-racial Xindi), got involved with the time cops, went back in time. They took the vulcan and changed her from the withdrawn but curious observer (which held true to ST lore) and turned her into an oversexed horny......lemme just stop there. I don't mind sex appeal in a show, and I CERTAINLY don't mind staring at attractive wimmin, but that was so tacked on as to be disgusting. I remember how badly Trekkies reacted to 7 of 9, and she was an interesting character (and at least her attempts at being more human were easier on the eyes than Data's).
For an ANTI-mistake/shark-jump, how about Voyager after about season 3? The first few seasons were stupid; you had the aliens with the rock candy heads, and virtually every episode followed the template of 'We found a way home but it might do something bad so we'll skip it' crap. They also had Early Kess - an annoying fast aging hippy.
Then around mid-series, they introduced the Borg in general, 7 of 9 (which was actually well introduced sex appeal), Species 8472, whacked Kess and brought her back Carrie style, and turned Janeway from Picard with Hoo-hoo's to Kirk with Hoo-Hoo's. They took a non-cliche explanation for 8472 (Borg tried to branch out) and an a-typical result to it (they tried to train to pass as humans to subvert the Federation, and made a rough treaty). And while there were time travel episodes (Kim saves the Day, the chrono war series with Red from That 70's Show, and the finale) they were far better done and didn't have the stink of poo that Enterprise did. Plus the SFX were top notch.
Lastly, an anime toss in - Neon Genesis Evangelion. Up to the last 2 episodes the story was, while a bit convoluted, beautifully done and coherent. Then the last 2 consisted of a bunch of Japanese channelling Pollock through the eyes of a severely deranged lunatic. I know the reasoning behind it - they couldn't get the funding to do the end the way they wanted, so they made it confusing enough to generate the fan support to get them to do a theatrical release and end it properly. I've seen the whole series as well as both movies, and love the story - but those last two episodes are like a bad taste in my mouth. I tack most of the first movie with the last 2 episodes because it was the worlds longest recap
Bah Weep Granna Weep Ninny Bahn - Universal Greeting
Est Solarus Oth Mithas - Solamnic Knight Pledge
And now its me too:
http://matrixprime.blogspot.com |
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stevemb
Altar Boy of Jabootu
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 3:13:40 PM
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"X-Files ended for me somewhere during Season 6, when it became obvious that the aliens/black goo/conspiracy story arc had dissolved into utter incoherence. There is a line between byzantine and who-gives-a-crap, and X-Files jumped right over it."
This is what tends to happen when you try to create a "story arc" by the seat of your pants. Chris Carter kept painting himself into a corner and cutting a hole in the wall to escape from it (and didn't take care to avoid cutting through load-bearing elements of his story structure).
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 4:44:09 PM
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Well put! I shall shamelessly steal that cut-hole-in-wall metaphor frow now on.
A sci-fi friend reading this thread told me that the same thing happened with Isaac Asimov, no less, and his FOUNDATION meta-series. He kept pulling back curtains - aha readers, you see, THIS is what's really happening - until nobody cared.
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee) |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 9:09:38 PM
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In the final episode of X-Files, Chris Carter Scully and Mulder somehow felt obligated to explain the conspiracy to the audience one more time.
Really, if you've been on the air for ten seasons and this is the final episode and the audience still doesn't get it, let it slide. I'd rather see another Scully-and-Mulder-being-chased-in-the-woods-by-a-monster episode than sit through a two hour expositive courtroom drama, which is all "The Truth Part 1 and 2" really was. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 11:29:28 PM
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Good call on Red Dwarf.
What about Space:1999- remember when suddenly the whole design of Moonbase Alpha changed for no reason at all?? It's been years since I've seen it but I seem to remember that the show went from goofy if hard-to-swallow fun to complete surreal weirdness at that point.
As for Asimov and the Foundation series, I think EVERY major sci-fi writer has gone down that road- Arthur Clarke and the 2001 and Rama books, Herbert and the Dune series, Heinlein and everything, the Ringworld books- all of them. |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2006 : 02:53:19 AM
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I quite enjoyed "The Truth", the X-Files Season 9 finale. But of course, I'm talking from the perspective of somebody who couldn't see either seasons 8 or 9 (no Sat TV) and was happy to see things finally made some sense.
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MikeC
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 09:35:26 AM
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The thing with FOUNDATION, from what I recall reading, is that
Asimov realized that his premise of a group following a foolproof
plan to save civilization was not conducive to long-term story-telling.
The only problem is, John Campbell didn't realize this, and kept
egging him on to do more with it because it was popular with
the readers. Unfortunately, years later he tried to tie FOUNDATION
into his ROBOTS stories with rather lackluster results.
MikeC |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:40:57 PM
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| I liked all the original stories, though they did wear a bit thin near the end. It was the later novels where Foundation jumped the shark, IMO. He brought in the robots, and Gaia, and lots of nonsense... |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:45:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
Good call on Red Dwarf.
What about Space:1999- remember when suddenly the whole design of Moonbase Alpha changed for no reason at all?? It's been years since I've seen it but I seem to remember that the show went from goofy if hard-to-swallow fun to complete surreal weirdness at that point.
As for Asimov and the Foundation series, I think EVERY major sci-fi writer has gone down that road- Arthur Clarke and the 2001 and Rama books, Herbert and the Dune series, Heinlein and everything, the Ringworld books- all of them.
Space:1999, IIRC, switched designs and changed some characters between seasons 1 & 2. And yes, the second season got really strange.
Yep, it seems that every major sci-fi writer ends up with that one series that starts with one great book and premise and then slides down into the well of mediocrity. Heinlein though took the biggest dive of any writer in general. His stroke really messed him up.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Smitty
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 12:03:13 AM
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When they put Connie Chung on TV it is always a suckfest.
She stunk it up on NBC for about 10 years.
Then she went to CBS as Dan Rather's co-host, no wonder the poor bastard went nuts, then she went to ABC and yes she stunk there too. Then she went to CNN and yep it was garbage.
What the Hell's she doing now? Playing the part that most suits her, being Mrs. Maury Povich.
-cs™
Your notions, though many are not worth a penny. |
Edited by - Smitty on 03/08/2006 12:04:31 AM |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 11:38:46 PM
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It's been touched on, but the biggest mistakes in TV history often come about when a series doesn't know when to finish.
Also, if you want to complain about "The X-Files", my biggest gripe was that Mulder was an absolute butthead whenever it came to religion. I'm not religious at all, but seeing him continually pour scorn on Scully's beliefs (and experiences, for that matter), despite expecting her to swallow every ludicrious mouthful of his own explanations, got quite frustrating for me. Of course, the show made him to be almost always exactly correct, so Scully rarely got any satisfaction from being partnered with Mulder.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - Two more "Bibleman" reviews from Heckler King and I take a look at "The Crow" |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:19:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by UnknownSubject
Also, if you want to complain about "The X-Files", my biggest gripe was that Mulder was an absolute butthead whenever it came to religion. I'm not religious at all, but seeing him continually pour scorn on Scully's beliefs. [...] Of course, the show made him to be almost always exactly correct, so Scully rarely got any satisfaction from being partnered with Mulder.
You mean apart from the occasional sex? |
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