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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2006 : 1:58:59 PM
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WARNING SOME SPOILERS
Peter Jackson's dream of remaking the classic giant ape movie became a reality last year. However, the box office, while not all that bad, were below expectations. George Lucas said this was because big event movies cannot make money anymore.
I think old Georgie Boy is full of crap.
King Kong, while hardly a bad movie is a movie that is riddled with problems. Most of these problems could have been corrected with more fierce editing.
The movie drags like a fat, bloated sealion on qualudes for the first hour, right up until they reach the island. there could have been some tightening later in this film, but the bulk of the problems were in this first hour. Hour, he says. Because the total running time is aroung three hours. So a third of the movie drags. The first third, which is when most people would walk out if they don't like a movie.
Let's take a look at what happens in this hour. Mostly, we are introduced to our principle cast. We meet Anne, Carl, Jack, and the rest and learn of their individual situations that brought them together to be on this boat. The 1933 original did this, but it didn't take nearly as long. Set it up and move on.
However, Jackson & co were trying to do things that were a little more complex than in the original. I mean, look at Faye Wray's performance. All she had to do was scream a lot.
They tried to give naomi Watts a bit more motivation by establishing a fatherly figure in the form of an older vaudville performer. The problem is, this subplot runs right into the brick wall of cliche. He announces after their theater is closed that he's going back to Chicago and then make a little speech about how everything she wants in life she loses. This whole subplot could have simply been removed or possibly saved by cutting out some of the melodramatic dialog. Melodrama is typified when the characters on screen are acting on emotions the audience neither feels nor believes. They lost us with the corny lines the actor is made to say.
In fact the subplots during this first third is why the movie flounders for an hour. Subplots are a great tool for maintaining audience interest while the main plot slowly unfolds. Casablance had a half dozen subplots that paid off during it's opening 30 mins to keep the audience involved until Ingrid Bergman finally made her entrance and the main plot could get moving. King Kong also has several subplots, but most of them do not pay off until later in the film or are corny cliches.
The romance between Anne and Jack was especially corny. I think they were trying to pay homage to the 1930's style of storytelling with this, but the problem is, it doesn't work because it's corny. It plays out like a movie script and we don't buy it for a second. I don't think we're supposed to, but then why waste our time and pad out the film's running time with it?
Carl's assistant Preston is the center of another subplot where he goes from being youthly naive to become a little wiser and lot more cynical. However, this does not pay off until after they get Kong back to New York, so it doesn't do much to help hold our interest during the first hour.
And then there's the Jimmy subplot which probably pays off somewhere around the end of Act II, but I'd be strained to say how, really. In fact, I think Jimmy's subplot was a narrative dead end. It really doesn't go anywhere. He started as a brash youth with a mysterious past and ended as a brash youth with a mysterious past. I guess it did help somewhat to maintain interest earlier in the film, but then ticked us off when it went no place and on subsequent viewings we ignored it because it went no place, so it didn't even hold our attention anymore.
So, on the whole, King Kong is not a bad movie, but fell short of greatness because it lacked some tighter writing and editing.
"The MacGuffin that turns our to be a big fat MacNuthin'." |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 3:44:14 PM
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Although what you say is reasonable, I still didn't mind the movie having a slow start. I even liked that they didn't feel any rush to present the giant gorilla in front of our eyes. I think you're about the film being too long and in desperate need of tighter editing, but I would have used the scissors in all that series of scenes with dinosaurs chasing the heros in the middle section of the film. That was really tiresome.
Of course, the producers would be mad to hear that I would cut those incredibly expensive set pieces, so I would be fired at once and forced to direct TV ads for the rest of my life. |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 4:07:19 PM
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I say for a movie to be dynamite it needs 3 good scenes, no bad ones, and last 15 mintutes must be moving in some way.
Slowness can be detrimential to a film. And in the context you present, pointless.
But 2001: A Space Odessey can show you that a film can be slow as long as it has the criteria I mentioned.
Does King Kong meet that standard?
____________________________________________________________________
"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 4:53:00 PM
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It's not so much about rushing to show us the giant gorilla as watching the set up feels... hollow, like it isn't really going anywhere. As such, my attention was wandering. A lot. I didn't expect them to get to the big big monkey, but they didn't have to bore me to death while we were waiting for it.
And I agree on the stampede scene. It was fairly throw away. Didn't really do much for me and for some reason looks much, much worse on television. It might have been the TV, but the compositing was just painfully obvious. It looked fake. I could practically see the matte lines (which digital composites don't have, right?) So, yeah, I think that scene could have ben much better don, too.
"The MacGuffin that turns our to be a big fat MacNuthin'." |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 5:11:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Nemo
I say for a movie to be dynamite it needs 3 good scenes, no bad ones, and last 15 mintutes must be moving in some way
....
Does King Kong meet that standard?
Well, let's see. Definately moving at the end. It has weak scenes but I hesitate to call them out-and-out bad.And once they get to the island, I would say it has at least three good scenes.
But then, I found 2001 to be boring. But you can't apply a formula like this to use logic to make a movie better. If I was bored watching 2001, counting the number of good scenes at such would not help me be any less bored. Or anyone else, for that matter.
That said I still liked the remake for King kong and I hold 2001 in esteem. I just find actually watching them a chore sometimes.
"The MacGuffin that turns our to be a big fat MacNuthin'." |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 11:16:02 PM
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Jack, I'll second your comment on Lucas being full of it. (I disagree with some of the stuff you say about Kong, which was one of my favorites of the year, maybe the top, but your points are at worst worth arguing.)
Back to the subject at hand. Here's a tip for ya, Georgie-Porgy. I don't care if a movie costs $200 million or $20,000. The only question I care to ask is, Was the money well spent? In other words, is it a GOOD movie? |
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 05:57:26 AM
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I agree with those who think the dino-battles could have been cut. For half-an-hour there, the movie turned into Ninja Kong (now with extra death-grip! only $24.99). The scenes with the bugs and slime monsters, while certainly creepy, was also unnecessary (although it ties nicely in with the Heart of Darkness theme).
But I certainly liked the movie. It's just that it could have been better. PJ did a great job with Lord of the Rings but it seems that he has acquired an obssession with making long movies. That's not necessary when you have as simple a story as King Kong.
- Who is John Galt? - |
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CobraCmdr
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 09:05:20 AM
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I think part of the problem with analyzing "What went wrong" is that we're all going to disagree. I think the whole "Jimmy" subplot was unecessary, and the first third of the film was way too long. On the other hand, I loved the dinosaur battles, and thought the T-rex fight was one of the greatest fight scenes I have ever seen.
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hk6909
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
651 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 09:32:09 AM
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Me, I think the movie would've been a lot more bearable if it had just been an hour shorter. And to me, it felt like they were trying just a little too hard to portray Kong as a persecuted beast, how mean they tried to make it look when people were attacking him. This in spite of the fact that he was wrecking downtown New York and literally flinging innocent people around like rag dolls while he looked for his Faye Wray doll. I remember sputtering when I saw how quickly the planes got there.
That, and all the plot threads that didn't give nearly the pay-off they should've.
And maybe, just maybe, Denham should've gone to jail for bringing a forty-foot gorilla into the heart of the country's biggest city. It's not that I dislike the actor, but he didn't make his character at all likeable. When he vowed to continue the expedition to honor his fallen comramdes' deaths, I constantly felt like he was merely using that as a means of securing his remaining underlings' loyaltly, not that he really gave a crap how many people died as long as he made it back to civilization with footage of this lost world which would make him rich.
No, as a matter of fact, there has never been one single time where I've been mellow. |
Edited by - hk6909 on 04/10/2006 09:37:45 AM |
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MrPorter
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 09:48:31 AM
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I love the T-Rex fight as well.For a lengthy fight scene with a relentless foe I found that it maintained my interest for the whole time, plus it answers the question of how the hell you kill one of those things. The way that Kong makes sure it was dead is a pretty nice touch as well, making things seem all the more realistic.
I agree that the first half drags (actually the first time I saw it I remember thinking to myself at about the 35 minute mark that that wasn't an issue at all. My opinion changed over the next 15 minutes.), but all of that is easily solved by the wonders of DVD. I've already seen the 'movie' starting at Skull Island three times now, and it is a wonderful experience.
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Everything's chrome in the future! |
Edited by - MrPorter on 04/10/2006 09:49:05 AM |
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KurtVon
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 2:24:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hk6909
Me, I think the movie would've been a lot more bearable if it had just been an hour shorter.
I agree, and I also think there wasn't any one scene that should have been cut, so much as many scenes that should have been shortened. We have a slow build up in the author/actress romance that suddenly goes serious in a half minute scene. Huh? If you're going to do that, why bother with a slow buildup?
King Kong had to fight three dinosaurs why? One would have been just as interesting. The dinosaur stampede was funny, but really they could have ended it quicker by having the people duck into a cave or something and I would have been happy. Hell, even the rampage scenes could have been shortened significantly.
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I remember sputtering when I saw how quickly the planes got there.
By my count they arrived shortly after sunrise when the escape was around 8 PM. Given it was winter I'd say 12 hours. That sounds pretty slow to me with (at the time) two airports nearby, both with NG presence.
quote:
When he vowed to continue the expedition to honor his fallen comramdes' deaths, I constantly felt like he was merely using that as a means of securing his remaining underlings' loyaltly, not that he really gave a crap how many people died as long as he made it back to civilization with footage of this lost world which would make him rich.
That was the point.
Remember the PAs reaction when he realized the rousing speach was actually a formula response (probably from one of his movies) after he used the exact same words a second time?
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"The easy way to tell is monkeys have a tail and apes don't."
"What's the hard way?"
-- Actual conversation with my daughter
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Edited by - KurtVon on 04/10/2006 2:27:59 PM |
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JazzyJ
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 2:44:17 PM
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This discussion is fascinating to me...
I agree with the points that Kong is a reasonably good yet flawed film, and I DEFINITELY agree that 45-60 minutes chopped out would have improved the film tremendously. It does seem that we won't agree on WHICH 60 minutes, though... :-)
For me, I agree that most scenes across the board should be shorter. One moment that especially comes to mind for me was the scene at the end where there is: a shot of Ann looking sad, a shot of Kong looking sad, a shot of Ann looking sad, a shot of Kong look... OH FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE -- GET ON WITH THE FILM!
Sorry, had to get that off of my chest...
Jazzy J
Signature currently under construction...
Please return later for exciting new content! |
Edited by - JazzyJ on 04/10/2006 2:46:07 PM |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 3:31:07 PM
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Yeah, it would have been nice if denham had a bit more dimension other than being a manipulative prick, but then, he was basically a manipulative prick. The only time he showed even an inkling of genuine... humanness, I guess, was when his camera got smashed and al the film ruined. Maybe if they do that really cool Son of Kong idea they could flesh him out a little. Or at least he would get sued by half the city like in the original SoK.
I'm generally flabbergasted by folks who did not like the T-Rex fight or who think the scenes involving Kong breaking stuff should have been cut or shortened while leaving most the other scenes intact. The name of the movie is King Kong. We paid to see a big. Big, big. Big big big big. Holy crap, he's huge! Big monkey. Big. Not some silly shipboard romance or giant bugs Or Brokeback tramp steamer (or whatever the Jimmy/Hayes relationship was supposed to be). No. I wanna see a twenty-five foot gorilla goin' ape. 25' not 40'.
Granted, all of that stuff could have enhanced the big big monkey plot, but I don't think they did.
But a lot of the stuff in there is there because it was in the original, in one form or another. The log scene, the T-Rex fight, the spider pit (a famous "lost" scene from the original), etc. Cutting them is kind of like cutting all of the scenes in a Superman movie where he wears the suit or displays any extraordinary abilities. It's kind of the reason the movie was made.
I dunno. It's not a fine line between fact and opinion on this matter, I guess. It's a bloody football field.
"The MacGuffin that turns our to be a big fat MacNuthin'." |
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hk6909
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
651 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 3:52:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KurtVon
quote:
Originally posted by hk6909
Me, I think the movie would've been a lot more bearable if it had just been an hour shorter.
I agree, and I also think there wasn't any one scene that should have been cut, so much as many scenes that should have been shortened. We have a slow build up in the author/actress romance that suddenly goes serious in a half minute scene. Huh? If you're going to do that, why bother with a slow buildup?
King Kong had to fight three dinosaurs why? One would have been just as interesting. The dinosaur stampede was funny, but really they could have ended it quicker by having the people duck into a cave or something and I would have been happy. Hell, even the rampage scenes could have been shortened significantly.
quote:
I remember sputtering when I saw how quickly the planes got there.
By my count they arrived shortly after sunrise when the escape was around 8 PM. Given it was winter I'd say 12 hours. That sounds pretty slow to me with (at the time) two airports nearby, both with NG presence.
quote:
When he vowed to continue the expedition to honor his fallen comramdes' deaths, I constantly felt like he was merely using that as a means of securing his remaining underlings' loyaltly, not that he really gave a crap how many people died as long as he made it back to civilization with footage of this lost world which would make him rich.
That was the point.
Remember the PAs reaction when he realized the rousing speach was actually a formula response (probably from one of his movies) after he used the exact same words a second time?
---
"The easy way to tell is monkeys have a tail and apes don't."
"What's the hard way?"
-- Actual conversation with my daughter
It didn't seem nearly that long to me that it took that long to mobilize the big guns, but the point is my main advice to PJ would have been to take out some of the fluff, which we seem to agree upon. It's like after making three super-long Lord of the Rings movies--which I did like and I understand were still majorly slimmed down from the print versions--something in his brain recorded that you can't make a movie really good that's any shorter.
No, as a matter of fact, there has never been one single time where I've been mellow. |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 05:48:32 AM
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I actually thought the movie was pretty damn good but I would have to agree with others that it was a wee bit too long. A lot of the stuff the first section could have been edited or truncated. That said I actually liked all the stuff that did make it onto the screen even if did seem a bit too much. I thought the whole T-Rex chase/fight was great, the best big screen action sequence in many years and not a second too long- it kind of reminded me of a scene from an Indiana Jones film in its lengthy, escalating nature.
One problem I did kind of have with the movie is a huge plot hole nobody ever seems to bring up. Namely, how the hell did they get Kong to New York? I really can't imagine that little ship carrying him the whole way- the movie rather cheekily skipped that whole issue by cutting straight to NY after Kong was taken down on Skull Island. |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2006 : 8:43:24 PM
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Given that I've never seen the film it may seem presumptuous of me to comment, but I think that King Kong's disappointing box office might not be primarily due to any particular failing of the movie. I think the problem is one we've railed against time and time again on this forum. King Kong is just another in a long line of completely unnecessary remakes.
The fact of the matter is that there is just no reason to remake one of the most iconic films in history. Not only is there nothing to add to the original story, but there's not even a technical dimension that can be much improved upon. Maybe you could improve on an old classic like The Blob with some state of the art special effects, but the effects in the original King Kong are almost as impressive today as they were back in the 30's.
It pains me to say this because I am a very big fan of Peter Jackson's pre-Lord of the Rings work. Its too bad he couldn't have used his industry clout to create something original rather than indulge an old obsession. |
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