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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2006 : 12:51:32 AM
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| Can I add to the Reasons to Hate Episode 2 that it was a really, really bad movie? |
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Max Torque
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2006 : 12:07:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kooshmeister
And incidentally, Obi-Wan did not abandon Shmi Skywalker on Tatooine. At that point he had no idea she even existed. It was Qui-Gon Jinn who decided to leave her behind, and he did not "abandon" her. The deal was for just Anakin. Besides, Watto isn't a cruel master; Qui-Gon wanted Anakin not to save him from a life of slavery, but to train him and hone his skills in the Force. Shmi, for her part, was eventually freed and her death was an indirect, unforseen result of Qui-Gon's decision not to just kill Watto.
Except Qui-Gon kinda did abandon Shmi on Tatooine. Follow me here:
Qui-Gon places two bets with Watto on the outcome of the pod race. For the first bet, he stakes their ship (the silver SR-71) against the parts he needs to repair it. Well and good. For the second bet, Qui-Gon wagers Anakin's pod racer against Anakin's freedom from Watto. He tries to get Shmi in the bargain, but Watto tells him, "No pod is worth two slaves," but since he takes the bet, it appears that a pod is worth one slave. Again, fine and dandy.
Anakin wins the race, so Qui-Gon wins both bets; he keeps the ship and the pod, and he wins the parts to fix the ship and Anakin. Shortly thereafter, we see that Anakin has sold his racing pod, which apparently fetched a pretty good price; when Anakin shows Shmi how much he got, she is impressed.
So....why didn't Qui-Gon, or Anakin for that matter, use the money from the sale of the pod to buy Shmi from Watto? It's not like they need that money for anything else, since they have plenty of Republic credits and aren't buying anything else on Tatooine. And Watto probably needs money more than he needs slaves, since it appears he lost more bets than just the ones with Qui-Gon.
I can think of only two possibilities: one, that Qui-Gon wanted to ditch Shmi and never really intended to take her with them, or two, Qui-Gon and Anakin are both idiots. |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2006 : 3:48:50 PM
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| Anakins mom should have been dead before the opening credits rolled |
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Kooshmeister
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2006 : 11:27:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BrainFromArous
64 Reasons to Hate Episode 2
http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep2.php
For Reason #60, although they correctly list Motti as the guy Vader chokes for not believing in the Force, it was actually Tarkin who is credited with creating the Death Star (as can clearly be seen at the end of Revenge of the Sith).
And I'm sick of people complaining about how the trade dispute in The Phantom Menace doesn't make for an exciting story. They're completely missing the point: the dispite is intended to be trivial. The characters even comment on this ("I sense an unusual amount of fear for something as trivial of this trade dispute"). It's just there to hide Darth Sidious' real intentions.
While that website has noble intentions, they need to bone up a little more on the SW universe. |
Edited by - Kooshmeister on 06/05/2006 11:45:09 PM |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 12:39:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Max Torque
So....why didn't Qui-Gon, or Anakin for that matter, use the money from the sale of the pod to buy Shmi from Watto? It's not like they need that money for anything else, since they have plenty of Republic credits and aren't buying anything else on Tatooine. And Watto probably needs money more than he needs slaves, since it appears he lost more bets than just the ones with Qui-Gon.
Why didn't they just take her?? It's a morally defensible option. The Jedi strike me as basically chaotic good in outlook. They obey a higher code than just local law. Wouldn't they?? The real reason is that Shmi (SHMI????) has to get killed years later to help motivate Anakin's move toward the dark side.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 12:44:55 AM
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BTW, I do feel a little for Lucas here. No one picked apart these points so anally when Ep IV (gawd, I hate calling it that) came out, they just went along for the cheesy thrill ride it was meant to be. Problem is, the prequel trilogy has holes that are just too big and not enough fun to distract.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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MikeC
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 09:27:27 AM
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To all concerned (principally Mike Hawley):
I knew that Leigh Brackett's contributions to the SW saga were
not as large as I had once thought (I own and have read the
ANNOTATED SCREENPLAYS). Yet, somehow I missed the extra
info from the other sources.
Though I still hold that she must have had some influence
on shaping things, it is both gratifying to hear that Lucas
had a clear vision independent of her SF experience, and
rather depressing that it seemed Mr. Lucas didn't add to
his vision between 1983 and 1998.
I love this board.
MikeC |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 11:15:53 AM
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BTW, back to the original topic, new info says that the OOT side of the disks will have both full-frame and letterbox transfers. So, now we have low bit-rate unrestored crappy LD masters. Screw that.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 1:45:26 PM
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Really, though, that guy (gal?) at www.chefelf.com/starwars needs to get a grip. Sorry to have to say this, but I'm sick and tired of fanatics raving over how "brilliant" and "mature" Empire Strikes Back was. What a load of crud. IMHO, the only good scenes in that movie were Yoda's and the climax on the cloud planet. The rest of it was poorly scripted, puerile, one-dimensional malarkey. The Han-Leia scenes made me wince. 3P0 was execrable. Obi-Wan's "reappearance" was as badly conceived and written as any of the ideas fanboys complain about in the new trilogy.
And if critics like the one at chefelf.com want to whine about logical inconsistencies in the new trilogy, about taking a shot at that ridiculous landwalker sequence on the Hoth planet? What practical use would landwalkers serve in any battle capacity, let alone on a planet whose entire surface is covered in slick frozen tundra? The walkers are slower than fungus, they can't corner worth a darn, and apparently all their weapons are mounted to the front of the vehicles. So what do the idiot rebels do? They fly at them head-on! (The heroine in Pink Five Strikes Back put it best: "Couldn't we just fly around the walkers and attack them from behind? Duhhhhh.")
quote:
Originally posted by Sardu
A little more rant- for me the biggest giveaway that the prequel backstory was little more than a general idea when Lucas made the first movie is Han's line (and that Death Star guy too) about the Jedi and the Force being basically some kind of ancient religion/mysticism that no modern person took seriously. According to the final storyline, the Jedi had been in full flower only, what, twenty years before?? Most people around at the time would have known that the Jedi were entirely real and powerful from actual experience. It would be like someone 20 years old in the 60's doubting the existence of Nazis. GL just never actually THOUGHT about it.
Han's line, at least, would have remained consistent with both trilogies if Lucas hadn't altered what the Force essentially was. In A New Hope it was little more than an intergalactic sixth sense (or sith sense, yuk yuk) that "guides a Jedi's actions". It wasn't anything tangible; you couldn't see "the Force" in action. Either you believed in or you didn't.
For instance:
Note when Obi-Wan shuts down the Death Star tractor beam, he doesn't hurdle himself from platform to platform to get in and get out because back then the Jedi "leapfrog move" hadn't been invented yet. Nor does he simply use his Jedi telekenesis to whip the laser gun from the murderer's hand in the Tattooine bar because that power wasn't canon until Darth employed the technique in Empire. (To say nothing of Yoda and the sunken ship.)
So from Han's vantage point, even if the Jedi had been in full flower only twenty years before: big whoop. To the naked eye, there was nothing about them or about their actions that made them special. Maybe the Force was just an article of faith. Heck, one of the greatest Jedi who ever lived was standing right in front of him, and when stormtroopers attack the spaceport in Tattooine, what does Obi-Wan do? He hauls holy *ss onto the Falcon while our non-Jedi heroes Han and Chew watch his backside. Couldn't Obi-Wan use his light sabre to deflect the... oh, wait, no, that ability had to wait until Return of the Jedi. |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 06/06/2006 1:49:52 PM |
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Kooshmeister
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 11:30:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
And if critics like the one at chefelf.com want to whine about logical inconsistencies in the new trilogy, about taking a shot at that ridiculous landwalker sequence on the Hoth planet? What practical use would landwalkers serve in any battle capacity, let alone on a planet whose entire surface is covered in slick frozen tundra?
Just my personal two cents, I think the idea is terror tactics. Seeing these monstrous behemoth stomping towards them with their impenetrable armor would make most ground troops wet themselves and flee, which they did. The design of the AT-AT Walker isn't intended to be practical, just look intimidating. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 11:42:17 PM
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My added two cents: I think the idea is selling toys. Once the AT-AT walkers' primary weakness is exploited, which in "real" life would take anyone else about five seconds to figure out, the walkers would pose zero threat.
Again, it's only a movie, so I don't really care. My point it's amazing how fans will forever give gaffes in the original trilogy (and Empire in particular) a free pass, yet belly-ache constantly about the slightest lapse in logic or story consistency in the new series. |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2006 : 06:35:06 AM
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My own two cents: Empire had some real problems for me, the biggest one being that they have two storylines -- Luke in training and Han and Co. in the asteroid field -- running simultaneously... but one of them takes place over a few hours (or at most a few days) while one had to have taken place over several months!
Let's go back to Han and Leia and the others. We stay with them for a few minutes in real time. Back to Luke and Yoda... oops, he's been training for a week. Back to the Falcon, and a couple of hours have passed since the last scene.... AAAACCCCKKKK!!!! |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2006 : 10:18:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Again, it's only a movie, so I don't really care. My point it's amazing how fans will forever give gaffes in the original trilogy (and Empire in particular) a free pass, yet belly-ache constantly about the slightest lapse in logic or story consistency in the new series.
Well, like I said, it's beacuse if you're being entertained you don't worry about all that stuff, you give it a pass.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 12:29:45 AM
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> What practical use would landwalkers serve in any battle capacity, let alone on a planet whose entire surface is covered in slick frozen tundra?
Every winter, thousands of people get stuck walking in snow, and have to be rescued by helicopters and other motor vehicles. Because walking is no way to cross rough terrain.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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kdraut
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 09:35:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Han's line, at least, would have remained consistent with both trilogies if Lucas hadn't altered what the Force essentially was. In A New Hope it was little more than an intergalactic sixth sense (or sith sense, yuk yuk) that "guides a Jedi's actions". It wasn't anything tangible; you couldn't see "the Force" in action. Either you believed in or you didn't.
For instance:
Note when Obi-Wan shuts down the Death Star tractor beam, he doesn't hurdle himself from platform to platform to get in and get out because back then the Jedi "leapfrog move" hadn't been invented yet. Nor does he simply use his Jedi telekenesis to whip the laser gun from the murderer's hand in the Tattooine bar because that power wasn't canon until Darth employed the technique in Empire. (To say nothing of Yoda and the sunken ship.)
There has never seemed to be a standard for Force abilities. Some of the novels have Luke doing all sorts of crazy Force leaps, trances, etc., while other novels simplify it down to a "danger sense" and ignore most of the telekinetic foolishness.
http://www.kdraut.com/photo |
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