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KreenWarrior
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
111 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2006 : 12:39:42 AM
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I really don't think RotJ would have worked the way that was mentioned. Star Wars should be about good triumphing over evil. It wouldn't benefit from having a darker tone. Empire worked, but it worked because in RotJ some of the darker events get reversed.
*shrugs* Personal opinion, of course, but making things nastier or darker doesn't always make them better. |
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Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:03:35 AM
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I always liked RotJ as well (although let's face it, the Ewoks make one's teeth hurt). And one can say that Luke does end up alone - sure, Han and Leia are still around, but one can see that Luke has travelled a different path that will probably always keep him essentially solitary (in effect, the loveless Jedi that his father decided not to be).
When I first watched it, though, I did find that the celebrations at the end seemed, well, anticlimactic for the defeat of evil and liberation of an entire galaxy. Now, though, I ask myself, "What sort of celebrations would match that sort of victory?" I'm sure that, after the VE and VJ celebrations, people were wandering around going "So, WWII is over, and that's it?" Bonfires, some fireworks, some singing - that's as climactic as it's ever going to be. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 1:35:53 PM
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I think that is why Lucas added the celebration scenes in the special edition. However, in all honesty, I liked the Ewok song at the end better. It's just more upbeat and celebratory.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 3:48:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KreenWarrior
I really don't think RotJ would have worked the way that was mentioned. Star Wars should be about good triumphing over evil. It wouldn't benefit from having a darker tone. Empire worked, but it worked because in RotJ some of the darker events get reversed.
Keep in mind that when that structure was still on the table, it was going to be part 6 of 9 |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 6:51:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
I think that is why Lucas added the celebration scenes in the special edition. However, in all honesty, I liked the Ewok song at the end better. It's just more upbeat and celebratory.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist.
I haven't watched ROTJ-SE on tape in a while (and I ain't gettin' the DVD), so my memory may be a little foggy. I preferred the "celebrations on different worlds" ending in SE to the original, except for one thing: it cut into the ending fanfare in a very jarring way. Really a shame, since it took me all of five seconds to figure out how they could have segued into the final credits seamlessly. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 8:38:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BradH812
I haven't watched ROTJ-SE on tape in a while (and I ain't gettin' the DVD), so my memory may be a little foggy. I preferred the "celebrations on different worlds" ending in SE to the original, except for one thing: it cut into the ending fanfare in a very jarring way. Really a shame, since it took me all of five seconds to figure out how they could have segued into the final credits seamlessly.
The "Jub-jub" Ewok song segued equally badly. I hated that song. it was an appalling attempt at some kind of tribal music being sung by trained voices that were completely out of place. It reminded me of (generally white) church choirs where they try and sing old spirituals and they very carefully pronounce words like "Heaben" and "dem". ("Dem souls will rise to Heaben!") Yikes.
The new song, on the other hand is merely soulless hackneyed world music that sounds nothing like any music anywhere in the entire 14-odd hours of the series and utterly fails to capture the celebratory subtext of the montage due to its dull medium tempo and overall generic-ness.
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 06/27/2006 8:40:32 PM |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 10:20:06 PM
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>The "Jub-jub" Ewok song segued equally badly.
I didn't care much for the film, but whenever I think of how the nearby detonation of Death Star II would almost certainly destroy the ecology of Endor and kill all the Ewoks, then my dark soul takes wings, and my heart is filled with a vile joy.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 08:31:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
I didn't care much for the film, but whenever I think of how the nearby detonation of Death Star II would almost certainly destroy the ecology of Endor and kill all the Ewoks, then my dark soul takes wings, and my heart is filled with a vile joy.
Hehe, thanks for that thought John, now people will be wondering why I'm smiling a secret smile today. |
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Gristle McThornbody
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Germany
186 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 10:01:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kit Rex
<SNIP>...and any subtext in the film was delivered with the subtlety of a Tommy Iommi riff.
[anal retentive mode = ON]
As a Black Sabbath fan going way back, I must correct this. It's Tony Iommi. For punishment, you must listen to Ozzy Ozbourne read aloud 'Finnegans Wake' after he huffs some helium.
[anal retentive mode = OFF]
Great discussion of this topic, especially the 'Die Hard' comments. One of the many things that I always enjoyed about that movie (and still do), is that McClane does get the crap knocked out of him, and shows the effects of the wounds he suffers. Who didn't wince the first time they saw him dragging himself across the floor after the "shoot...the glass!" scene?
The "wiseass factor" does come into play, but I'm a 33rd degree wiseass myself, using humor in tough situations as a coping mechanism, so I can relate. Sure, he's a wiseass, but you can tell he's in over his head, and is just trying to do anything he can to survive.
"Hi, I'm Bob Evil!" |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 4:21:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure the wiseassery was an action movie staple by 1988.
Or at least an action movie paper clip. |
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commodorejohn
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 5:33:19 PM
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Honestly, I think a whole lot of people on the Internet take their Star Wars way too seriously. Sure, I'd definitely agree that Episode IV was the best of the series, and yes, the Ewoks were a little over-cutesified, but seriously, this talk first of how bad Episode I was (no, it was actually a pretty good movie and the best of the new trilogy,) and now of how Return Of The Jedi has been retroactively declared terrible (nobody was complaining about it when Episode II came out and Angst-akin was the topic of the day) just makes me think that the people who watch Star Wars movies need something to gripe about now that the last movie is out.
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Who -are- the overlords of the UFO? |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 6:10:23 PM
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No, man. ROTJ was always terrible. At the tender age of 12 I recognized it, I just didn't want to believe it.
You have to remember the powerful effect Star Wars had on people. These movies were a turning point in my life. The effect is profound, like a religious experience. Which shouldn't be surprising since lucas incorporated all kinds of myth stuff from Joseph Campell. And what Lucas ha been doing with it pretty much since ROTJ is on the order of like, uh, well saying that jesus was not the son of God and he was married and had children and he never died on any cross and stuff like that. The emotional tie is so strong that when it gets screwed with, even by the original creator, the negative reaction is equally strong. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 6:45:09 PM
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So ROTJ is really The DaVinci Code??
Coming soon-
Eraserhead: The Musical!! |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 6:51:42 PM
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Well, I don't know if ROTJ is, but the special editions and prequels sure are!!!
(three exclamation points-rific) |
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Kit Rex
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 10:33:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Gristle McThornbody
As a Black Sabbath fan going way back, I must correct this. It's Tony Iommi. For punishment, you must listen to Ozzy Ozbourne read aloud 'Finnegans Wake' after he huffs some helium.
Sorry. I've seen it written both ways about a million times, so I didn't know. And the punishment you mentioned sounds hilarious.
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"Time. Time. What is time? Swiss manufacture it. French hoard it. Italians squander it. Americans say it is money. Hindus say it does not exist. Do you know what I say? I say time is a crook." |
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