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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2007 : 7:30:35 PM
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Warning: this post is sure to drag us all into a political morass of doom. Run away now.
(And if you're still reading, please don't say, "Stop it, this is a site about discussing movies!" because it isn't. It's a site devoted to discussing movies which often features political commentary from the highly right-wing viewpoint of its author, as well as commentary from many people on the right here in the forum, which is why I enjoy it, and enjoy discussing things here. I am, I swear, completely dispassionate* about it and do not think you suck just because I'm from a leftie from Soviet Canuckistan, no matter how heated my responses may grow, so please, let's just have some discussion about this, OK?)
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OK, after all that build-up, I don't think this is a particularly contentious thing to post, butit is politically charged. It's just that John Rogers of Kung Fu Monkey has written a response to this new Fox News comedy show, "The Half Hour News Hour", which is, I think, an absolutely bang-on response to people who complain about the liberal/conservative bias thing in movies and TV.
[url]http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/02/lunch-discussions-781-and-aliens.html[/url]
He also has an earlier one about the "Path to 9/11" miniseries, which is related.
[url]http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/09/path-to-911.html[/url]
His basic point is that most GOOD entertainment, particularly comedy, of the last few years has seemed to sympathise largely with the left. Not because left-wing writers are inherently better or funnier, but because they're writing from the place most comedians, artists and entertainers try to write from: they're the underdogs, the rebels, and the people who have a widely-heard voice in the absence of actual power. And that "promoting balance", while an admirable goal, is not well served by people who see entertainment as a means to an end rather than an end in itself (and thus, usually aren't actual entertainers).
All of which is to say, the Half Hour News Hour seems to be trying WAAAAAAAY to hard to copy the form of The Daily Show while missing the point, i.e. that the jokes are funny.
*Which is a lie. But I try to be.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 8:29:45 PM
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For those who haven't seen it. Here's what we're talking about here:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WCNc7JZ24k"]Clip 1[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRxFjf40xbI&eurl="]Clip 2[/url]
Gotta step it up guys.
Face it, you're no Daily show.
Heck, you're no [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwr5pYVz0Q"]Ronald Reagan[/url]
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 01:49:10 AM
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Funny is funny, regardless of the politics involved. This Half Hour News Hour simply isn't funny.
Now Playing in Foyeurism at Foywonder.com:
GODSPLOITATION - THR3E, UNIDENTIFIED, DEMON KEEPER, & DEATH TRAIN
Plus: B-WARE THE BLOG is alive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/foywonder |
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BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 10:26:47 AM
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This leads me to a question I have been asking myself for awhile now. Did Dennis Miller become spectacularly unfunny, or do I just not like him now because I disagree with his politics?
I am a liberal, but during the late '90's I loved Dennis Miller. He mocked Clinton to no end, but I still found it very funny. I was very happy when they moved him to Monday Night Football, and I actually even enjoyed him on that. Now, when I watch him, I can't even summon a smirk.
So I guess my question is, did he become unfunny because he is trying to pigeonhole his comedy to defending George Bush, rather than let it flow naturally, or do my lefty leanings preclude me from laughing at someone I perceive as coming from the Right? (As a side note, most of my friends are Conservatives, and they crack me up all the time). |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 11:14:51 AM
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For the Dennis Miller question, I need more.
What goes thru your mind when you see these two clips?
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIk-cpNxkj4&eurl="]Clip 1[/url]
[url="http://msunderestimated.com/MillerTime022107.wmv"]Clip 2[/url]
By the way, If I defend Dennis it's because we're fellow Pittsburghers.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 12:50:38 PM
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Briefly, the first clip, I can agree with what he is saying on the surface of it, but I find the subtext somewhat disturbing. Yes, I certainly agree that we should be rooting FOR the President, whether they are Dems or Republicans, but the insinuation that if you have a problem with what the President is doing, then you must be rooting for the terrorists, is a deeply un-American philosophy, if you ask me. Plus it truly pains me to have to watch Rosie try and match wits with Miller, as whatever his faults, Miller certainly is no lightweight.
The second clip I actually had very little problem with (other than the fact that a seemingly oblivous O'Reilly steps all over virutually every punch line). I don't agree with some of what he is saying, but I certainly have no problem with him giving his opinions. |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 5:37:35 PM
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BT, I hate to do this to you. Because I hate shrinks. But I'm probably going to sound like one to answer your question.
I would say, based on your answer, that his politics are definately bothering you. I say this because that was the thing you mostly commented on when you gave your reply.
In my opinion, Miller's humor hasn't changed since he was doing his show on HBO in the 90's. His humor is for people who have a perfect memory for pop icons and political figures. And the fact that in your post you went to bat for Dennis Miller about Bill O'Rielly qwashing his jokes(and I will say you are absolutely right) shows you still appriciate the man's humor.
I thought his El-Kaboom joke was a little bland but it got to the point.
And I think his joke about O'Rielly having a land mine in his honor on Hollywood Blvd. is a spot on jab at how much they must revile Bill out there.
And to Bill O'Rielly, I will say this. Ever since Michael Moore won the Palme D'hor, every political junkie knows what it is. I don't need you to explain every joke Dennis says. I'm not stupid.
In fact, this is another problem with the "Half Hour News Hour." The creators had the actors explaining the jokes they were making. Thus causing their segments to quickly run out of gas.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2007 : 9:26:00 PM
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You know, I never really lost my affection for Dennis Miller. He's one I'll always bring up as proof that right-wingers can still be funny. But I must admit I haven't seen much of his stuff post-90s, and whenever I do I'm struck by how he went from ultra-cool cat to seemingly having a gas attack every time he does a routine.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 12:32:30 PM
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Nemo, you make some good points. I guess I didn't consider either of the clips you presented as examples of what I was talking about, since they seemed to be more interviews than "riffs". However, there were some jokes in there, and as you stated, perhaps I didn't laugh because I didn't agree with his views.
I was initially thinking more about something like this:
[url]http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/22/dennis-millers-hc-lame-real-free-speech/[/url]
That seemed to be a better example of what he used to do. And I didn't find a word of it funny. Now in this case, I don't strongly disagree with the idea he is pitching, and he even takes President Bush to task, but there isn't a genuine laugh to be had in his "riff". "Jose can you see..."? Really? Is there a 3rd grader out there that hasn't already used some form of this as a joke already?
To put this another way, my brother is a Conservative, and has very little time for Liberals, but we were given tickets to a Jon Stewart show for Christmas, and he begrudingly went along. After the show he couldn't get over how funny he thought Stewart was, despite the fact he went into the show thinking Stewart was a whiny Liberal. I can't see the opposite happening if I went and saw a Miller show. It's possible my brother is more open minded than I am, but I don't think that is the case. That being said, maybe I need to see him in a completely political free context, and perhaps that would tell me if his humor, rather than his commentary, still speaks to me. |
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RossM
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 10:51:48 AM
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There is plenty of room for a conservative humor show. The Fox show though tries too hard to copy The daily Show and simply isn't funny. An unfunny copy is not a formula that will draw many viewers. On the other hand William F. Buckley has been drawing viewers and readers for decades because he is origional, droll, and very funny.
rossM |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 11:04:53 AM
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Caught the fist installment of this , missed the second. Not bad for a start, but need more skill.
Dennis Miller : Not as "All are fair game" as he once was, but that applys to MAD magazine today, too.
I'd like P.J.O'Rourke to write for the 1/2 hour news hour. THAT could be good!
Daily Show: Effecttive delivery, but sometimes, saying they know how to deliver a joke, is like comlimenting the mugger who punched you on his skill at fisticuffs.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KDOT
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 11:27:17 PM
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The word just came down the pike.
Fox is ordering 13 new episodes.
The ratings from those first two episodes garnered were too much to ignore. |
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 6:15:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
His basic point is that most GOOD entertainment, particularly comedy, of the last few years has seemed to sympathise largely with the left. Not because left-wing writers are inherently better or funnier, but because they're writing from the place most comedians, artists and entertainers try to write from: they're the underdogs, the rebels, and the people who have a widely-heard voice in the absence of actual power. And that "promoting balance", while an admirable goal, is not well served by people who see entertainment as a means to an end rather than an end in itself (and thus, usually aren't actual entertainers). --
Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]!
The most notable television comedy in the past 10 years is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, SOUTH PARK - a show which is famous for its libertarian/conservatism and merciless mockery of Leftist shibboleths.
Also, there hasn't been anything "underground" about the Left since the mid-1970s. I know it flatters them and suits their self-mythology to imagine themselves the embattled defenders of... whatever, but it just isn't true. Especially in academia and what we call "showbiz."
Indeed, a term has come 'round to describe this imposture: "Hollywood Courage"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IUK/is_2001_Wntr/ai_71837546
And here's Eric Raymond with some ideas for real Hollywood courage.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=273 |
Edited by - BrainFromArous on 03/19/2007 6:21:11 PM |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 01:29:55 AM
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South Park has a right-wing streak, but it's hardly "comedy from a right-wing viewpoint", despite the conservatives who have adopted it. Like any good comedy show, it goes after everyone that provides fodder. Which is my whole point. Parker and Stone obviously don't sit down and say "How can we make fun of the left today?" Just as Stewart doesn't say "How can we make fun of the right?" (Colbert MIGHT say something like that, since his whole schtick is mocking pundits like Bill O'Reilly, but he does get in unironic jabs at the left now and again.)
As for the left being "underground", I don't know how much clearer I have to say it. Up until the recent election, the right controlled the government and had a strong presence in the culture at large. Thus, the left were the underdogs, politically speaking. They still are, in fact, since congress's power is fairly limited, though we'll see how the current scandals shake out. Maybe in 2008 we'll get president Obama and a left-wing senate and congress, and then the right will be the underdogs. Maybe it'll be a mix, and no one will be. It's not about meeting in darkened basements to plot the overthrow of a tyrant. It's about who holds the reins of power. It's fairly objective. But if we're going to talk in generalizations, how about the culture of victimhood on the right, and the Bush administrations' constant need to blame everyone who isn't frighteningly loyal to them for their screw-ups?
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 01:55:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
As for the left being "underground", I don't know how much clearer I have to say it. Up until the recent election, the right controlled the government and had a strong presence in the culture at large.
What I wrote:
I know it flatters them and suits their self-mythology to imagine themselves the embattled defenders of... whatever, but it just isn't true. Especially in academia and what we call "showbiz."
The problem isn't clarity or the lack thereof. The problem is accuracy. A cultural and social environment in which something like Michael Moore's "documentary" Fahrenheit 9/11 receives the praise and exposure it did is not one in which the Left can be said to be "underground" - unless the term "underground" is being defined so broadly as to lose all meaning.
The arts & media scene is not the citadel of Left/Liberalism it once was - things like South Park are proof of that - but make no mistake: the "Right" may have a "strong presence" but the Left mostly runs the show.
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Boards don't hit back.
(Bruce Lee) |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 12:08:30 PM
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I have to agree- the left is a major force in the country just as the right is. Libertarians and Greens- they're underground.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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