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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
 Posted - 03/30/2008 : 12:16:52 AM
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It's official! MTV's latest movie Stop-Loss has gone down in flames to defeat.
Speaking for myself, I don't care what the political leanings of Hollywood are. I just love it when the Hollywood-types keep getting their butts handed to them. And this recent spat of Anti-war films keeps me schazenfreudian nirvana.
I'm gearing up for the next blissful experience when they run the Harold & Kumar franchise right in to the ground.
[url="http://www.haroldandkumar.com/videos/"]Click Here to see what I mean![/url]
Now, I am playing the odds on that one(and the fact the trailer made me wince a few times). But the next Oliver Stone film, I'm certain, will be a flop. Stone plans on a biopic about George Bush. Amittedly, I could play the odds on this one. Just see what happened to his other presidential movie Nixon.
But there is a better reason. NO ONE LIKES BUSH. And I doubt people want to see a film about him. Liberals hate him because of the war and his tax cutting policies. Conservatives hate him because of his immigration policy, spending, and big government ideas.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/24/AR2008032403254.html?hpid=topnews"]Cick here on why Hollywood throws good money after bad![/url]
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 06:15:47 AM
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It's absurd to make a movie about W. when he's still in frickin' office. At least Nixon and JFK had the benefit of a couple decades of perspective.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 06:25:03 AM
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JFK wasn't a biopick though. Kennedy hardly appeared in the movie and when he did it was via stock footage. The whole movie was a paranoid fever dream about the assasination rather than a dramatization of the Kennedy administration. It should be noted though that in the Stonian realm LBJ comes off way worst than Nixon. Stone has LBJ actually giving his ok to assasinate Kennedy whereas in Nixon Nixon, who was portrayed as being shaken up by the assasination, actually contacts the FBI to report on some people he was hanging out with as possible suspects.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 10:57:30 AM
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That's true, JFK really has nothing to do with the events of his actual life and probably doesn't belong a comparison to the Bush movie. But it does seem that most genuine biography films (and books) are made after their subjects have been gone long enough to reach some consensus about the tone the works will project, and the ramifications of actions taken by them are better known. That's the big thing about doing a Bush film that seems silly; we don't know WHAT the final outcome of current actions in the Middle East will turn out to be.
Of course, the TV show is an exception; they generally do bios of people living but they are usually more about pop icons than statesmen...
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 1:27:19 PM
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quote:
I'm gearing up for the next blissful experience when they run the Harold & Kumar franchise right in to the ground.
[url="http://www.haroldandkumar.com/videos/"]Click Here to see what I mean![/url]
I have a very strong feeling that you're going to experience no bliss when Harold & Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay opens strong. The first has a big following and every movie I've seen where the trailer for this one played before it was meat with riotous laughter. It's a stoner comedy; few going to see it are going to care about the politics.
Now Playing in Foyeurism at Foywonder.com: PILOT ERROR - An American Mad Mad, Andy Kaufman as a wacky robot butler, and combat hockey: a triple threat of futurisitic failed TV pilots
Plus: B-WARE THE BLOG is alive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/foywonder |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 4:01:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
I have a very strong feeling that you're going to experience no bliss when Harold & Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay opens strong. The first has a big following and every movie I've seen where the trailer for this one played before it was meat with riotous laughter. It's a stoner comedy; few going to see it are going to care about the politics.
Its not the politics that bothers me.
In the trailer, there is a scene where government officials are talking with Harold's parents. And they have a translator on hand to talk to Harold's parents because the government assumes they are foreigners. But Harolds parents talk in perfect English when they are questioned. And the translator turns around and says to the government guys that they are speaking in a dialect he doesn't understand.*
That is supposed to be funny?
Or how about the classy comment Kumar makes when they're talking about whether or not a guy is black and he says "Puuuleez, You're barely even brown"
Again, that is supposed to be funny?
And what about that scene were a old lady sees Kumar and yells "TERRORIST?"
The other stuff was okay. Another awkward sexual situation. Parachuting in to W's house. And Neil Patrick Harris.
But the racial stuff worries me. It's like a Chris Tucker movie on steroids. Jokes like that don't inspire me to laugh. Instead I get embarassed that I am watching the movie and hope the moment passes quickly. If they keep that stuff to a minimum or somehow defuse my embarrassment at watching such stuff, then I think it will be a success.
But I doubt it...
Apparently, Harold and Kumar will be taking a trip down south, as well as to Guantanamo Bay. And, it appears as if they'll be going from Miami to Texas, driving through trailer parks, inner city basketball games and, unfortunately, running into a few KKK members.
[url="http://www.cinematical.com/2006/12/05/harold-and-kumar-go-to-president-bushs-house/"]cinematical.com[/url]
Radical Muslim terrorists, inbred Deep Southerners, Homeland Security xenophobes and President George W. Bush are among the primary targets bruised and battered by the sledgehammering satire of "Harold & Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay," an over-the-top and beyond-PC comedy that sometimes deftly, sometimes slapdashedly infuses party-hearty anarchy with hectoring moral outrage.
And since you bring up politics:
Whether the pic can attract newcomers to the franchise --and score breakthrough success during its theatrical run -- depends on the willingness of the masses to accept a sex-drugs-and-rock-'n'-roll comedy so jeeringly critical of post-9/11 paranoia and so openly contemptuous of authoritarian excesses by U.S. government agencies charged with waging the war on terror.
[url="http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117936447.html?categoryid=2850&cs=1&nid=2577"]Variety[/url]
But I'll grant you the point. It may not be for the scrupulous crowd.
*I know, I know. There could be more to that scene. But still why portray it that way?
________________________________________________________________________
"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 07:52:06 AM
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Actually, I think both Foy and Nemo are right on this one. I imagine the film will do as least as well as the first film, which made about $18 million. As a first sequel, it may even do significantly better, say $25 to even $30 million.
On the other hand, I do think the political content will reduce to some extent any grown of the franchise that may otherwise have occurred. On the other, neither is it likely to hurt it with the pair's established niche audience.
The biggest advantage the new film has (and this is so weird I find it actually a bit hard to believe) is that they reportedly cut the budget by a third from the first film, from a reported $9 million to $6 million. This may be in recognition of the film's political content. In any case, if it does draw as much as the first film, and DVD sales don't decrease, then just by dint of that it will be more profitable than the first film.
On the other hand, that wouldn't be a mass market success either, and certainly doesn't speak to the way that the other anti-war comedies--the unintentional ones--have consistently bombed and yet continue to get rolled out.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 08:17:40 AM
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Yeah, to a large extent you have to figure that the audience for H&K will tend towards the types for which the film's political views will be preaching to the choir anyway...
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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CDiehl
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 12:36:35 PM
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*I know, I know. There could be more to that scene. But still why portray it that way?
Probably to attach to this movie a political point of view that it might or might not actually have or even want to have. Lord knows you can't just make a funny little movie about two guys without it having some kind of obnoxious message. The first movie was funny, but it didn't have any need to preach about marijuana. If this movie just uses the idea of these characters being mistaken for terrorists as a source of humor instead of for axe-grinding, it'll be OK.
You know Grand Funk, don't you? The wild, shirtless lyrics of Mark Farner? The bong-rattling bass of Mel Schacher? The ... adequate drumwork of Don Brewer? |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 4:03:48 PM
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On that note, sure. There are plenty of comedies about people accused of crimes they didn't commit. Stir Crazy and My Cousin Vinny come immediately to mind, but there are surely scores of others. What set these films apart is that while they ridiculed the stupidity and injustice of tossing innocent people in jail, they didn't mock the necessity of arresting hardened criminals.
If Harold and Akbar (or whoever) make that distinction in their next film, fine and dandy. Otherwise, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 03/31/2008 4:04:22 PM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 4:33:39 PM
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If they make it about government incompetence it might work. If they make it about government malevolence it will blow. You can't do comedy with a serious villain.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 4:52:17 PM
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In My Cousin Vinny, the local government wasn't corrupt or incompetent. Vinny was the buffoon and it wasn't until he got his act together that he was able to piece together what really happened. And that is what helps make the film. If they had made the it with the stereotypical view of small Southern hicks who are corrupt and stupid, the story wouldn't be half as good. So, it's possible to make it with a competent government and still have good comedy.
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 4:53:09 PM
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I repeat, its not the politics that will make people stay away.
It's the racial jokes.
The movie makes the mistake of assuming that because you paid your ten buck and parked your butt in their theater that you are already on their side. And as such, you will laugh at punchlines that the movie doesn't earn.
Give you an example...
When I was in college, I was entitled to a free movie at our on campus theater. The movie they showed was Money Train. I was sitting with mixed company(blacks and whites). A movie about two adoptive brothers. One played by Woody Harrelson. The other by Wesley Snipes. The story was that Woody's character had been adopted by a black family making Snipes his brother. Somewhere during the movie, Woody Harrelson makes a quip about watching BET or MTV or something. When Wesley Snipes asked him why he had been watching those channels, Woody said "I wanted to keep up with my black heritage." I remember a collective groan was let out by most people in the theater.
Then there was another movie: Rush Hour 2. Which is better described by Roger Ebert:
There is a belief among some black comics that audiences find it funny when they launch extended insults against white people (see also Chris Rock's embarrassing outburst in the forthcoming "Jay and Silent Bob"). My feeling is that audiences of any race find such scenes awkward and unwelcome; I've never heard laughter during them, but have sensed an uncomfortable alertness in the theater. Accusing complete strangers of being racist is aggressive, hostile, and not funny, something Tucker demonstrates to a painful degree in this movie--where the filmmakers apparently lacked the nerve to request him to dial down.
There's one scene that really grates. The Tucker character finds himself in a Vegas casino. He throws a wad of money on a craps table and is given a stack of $500 chips. He is offended: It is racist for the casino to give him $500 chips instead of $1,000 chips, the dealer doesn't think a black man can afford $1,000 a throw, etc., etc. He goes on and on in a shrill tirade against the dealer (Saul Rubinek). The dealer answers every verbal assault calmly and firmly. What's extraordinary about this scene is how we identify with the dealer, and how manifestly the Tucker character is acting like a the seven-letter word for "jerk." Rubinek wins the exchange.
[url="http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20010803%2FREVIEWS%2F108030306%2F1023&AID1=%2F20010803%2FREVIEWS%2F108030306%2F1023&AID2="]Chicago Sun-Times[/url]
Watching the trailer for Harold & Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay makes it appear that the movie is wall-to-wall with that kind of stuff. And hence, I don't see how that can make it successful.
Do I want to go to the theater wondering if the person next to me will think I am a racist because I laughed at a dumb joke in a dumb movie?
Very few movies can pull this off. The only one that comes to mind is Blazing Saddles. It had guts. But it didn't assume the audience wouldn't care if racial epitaphs would fly around in the first few minutes. The movie went to some lengths to paint people who discriminate as silly. And the hero wasn't portrayed as a dolt but a guy hell bent on earning peoples respect. Which put you firmly in his corner.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
Edited by - Capt. Nemo on 03/31/2008 6:26:24 PM |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 5:34:31 PM
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Though I agree with you in principle, Nemo, I can't think of one single movie where that sort of humor cost a movie money at the box office. Even the two examples you just listed were financial successes; Rush Hour 2 was a huge hit.
Now Playing in Foyeurism at Foywonder.com: PILOT ERROR - An American Mad Mad, Andy Kaufman as a wacky robot butler, and combat hockey: a triple threat of futurisitic failed TV pilots
Plus: B-WARE THE BLOG is alive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/foywonder |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 6:24:40 PM
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Two caveats:
1) The audiences for Money Train and Rush Hour 2 didn't know that stuff was in there. The Trailer for Harold & Kumar seems to push that stuff as a selling point.
2) Rush Hour 3 didn't do as well. I like to think people didn't want to go back because of Rush Hour 2. Money Train effectively ended the Woody/Snipes partnership(Thank GOD!).
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 07:26:41 AM
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I do find Chris Tucker extremely annoying myself, but from this side of the ocean he seemed to be satirizing black people's racism against whites rather than endorsing it. In Jay and Silent Bob he portrays a black movie star that uses his position of power to abuse the white crew, thus stating that *any* person with enough power will eventually use it to abuse anybody else.
And his tantrum in Rush hour 2 was simulated. He needed to attract the attention of everybody so Jackie Chan could do his stealthy entrance into the guts of the casino. The real Carter (Tucker's character) didn't really believe he was being discriminated, he simply needed a reason to attract attention and chose this one. |
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