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commodorejohn
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
76 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2006 : 3:12:52 PM
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I was certainly unaware. Duly noted, though.
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Who -are- the overlords of the UFO? |
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Gristle McThornbody
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Germany
186 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 3:26:05 PM
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Not since the infamous Clash of the Titans flamewars of 1981 (entirely on DARPANet, of course) has so much information on Krakers been presented in one place at one time.
"Hi, I'm Bob Evil!" |
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 08:26:45 AM
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Ok. First, this is slightly ridiculous. It is based on the idea that people are idiots, that if they see a black man being bad on the screen they go home thinking "Wow, all black men are like that." It doesn't work that way. Making effective propaganda movies is difficult. Look at the various Billy Jack movies - arguably propaganda in the true sense of the word. They succeeded because they were in tune with the the dominant ethos of the 70's, not because they created it. When the 70's ethos disappeared, Billy Jack flopped.
Second, LOTR: All the bad black men leave home to fight for Sauron. The good ones stay at home. That is why we see only bad black men. And, as Faramir points out in the movie (and Sam thinks in the books) - it's not even so sure they really were that evil. Maybe they were just doing their duty. Maybe they had been fooled.
Still, there are overtly racist overtones in the LOTR. The division of men into High Men and Common Men is perhaps the most obvious one. Aragorn is worthy to be king because he is of pure blood. And moral and racial degeneration go hand in hand (this comes from Plato, BTW).
Regarding black people being used to portray villains in the movies, I think many Uruk-Hai were played by Maoris...
Still, I think we're spending slightly too much thought on this.
- Who is John Galt? - |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 11:05:43 AM
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Classism (is that even a word) isn't necessarily racism though. The glaring class distinction between Sam and Frodo is between two people of the exact same race. I supposed the class distinction between Numenoreans and regular men fits, but hey- that's part of the traditional mythic underpinnings of the whole thing.
Yes, we are spending too much thought on this. *g*
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
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Culfy
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
United Kingdom
113 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 1:12:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Asta Kask
Still, there are overtly racist overtones in the LOTR. The division of men into High Men and Common Men is perhaps the most obvious one. Aragorn is worthy to be king because he is of pure blood.
I hate to nitpick....actually, who am I kidding, I love to nitpick so here goes. Aragorn is worthy to be king because he is actually descended from Kings. That's the way that monarchy works.
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Notes from a small cavy
www.culfy.blogspot.com |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 3:46:50 PM
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I can't resist diving back in here because I saw PotC:DMC again over the weekend. Let's look at some of the cricisms.
Instead we get what feels like a solid hour or so of vintage racial caricatures as the pirates are held captive by savage natives.
Actually, I think the film makers attempted to subtley avoid this complaint. I don't think one group represented all of the cannibals. It seemed to be a mix of Polynessians, Hawiians, and African Americans. Let's face it, I don't know of any group of European cannibals who lived in either the Pacific or Carribean. As such, they are going to be dark skinned. By having a mix, they may have been trying to prevent that criticism. And if there were no cannibals in the Carribean, so what? The movie wanted cannibals.
When a fatal fall in the same sequence kills half the crew of the Black Pearl--the reckless, treacherous half, so they deserve it--it claims all of the nonwhite pirates.
Actually this is false. A black and asian are in the prison with the three white minor characters. Two white guys die with the other group.
They have one more part to play, the same one as always: providing spiritual guidance for the white leads.
I'll admit that this is cliche. However, this is cliche in just about every Hollywood movie. I doubt if the author of this article complained about the wonderful and almost nigh perfect Indians from Dances with Wolves. Anyways, cliche doesn't mean racist.
Oh, and she flirts with every attractive male in sight, just another hypersexualized black character.
Um, no she doesn't. She flirted with Will and that was it. It was apparent that she had had something with Jack before. But, she never hits on Sparrow either.
<sarcasm>Of course, the sailors and pirates are never shown as woman chasing drunkards, are they.</sarcasm>
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 05:07:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
I'll admit that this is cliche. However, this is cliche in just about every Hollywood movie. I doubt if the author of this article complained about the wonderful and almost nigh perfect Indians from Dances with Wolves. Anyways, cliche doesn't mean racist.
Some people got very offeneded when Hollywood, trying to avoid the old negative stereotype of Native Americans, that of the scalping psychopath, created a new negative stereotype and idealized them till they were boring, showing them as totally passive, proud, simple, close-to-nature people, sitting around leading their proud, simple close-to-nature lives and waiting to be the victims of the evil white man's genocide. |
Edited by - New Hinda on 08/01/2006 05:08:55 AM |
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 07:25:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Culfy
I hate to nitpick....actually, who am I kidding, I love to nitpick so here goes. Aragorn is worthy to be king because he is actually descended from Kings. That's the way that monarchy works.
No, he becomes king because he is descended from kings. He is worthy to be king because he is of pure blood. European history is littered with monarchs who became kings, but weren't exactly worthy to be kings...
Now that I've actually seen the movie and read the racist charges, I must say I find them weak. Surely a portrayal of this kind is base only if it is consistently showing black people as bad and white people as good (or at least interesting villains). Take the scenes in Tortuga - they're not exactly flattering to the white race. In fact, the only people to escape the movie with dignity are Elizabeth and Weatherby Swann. Everyone else is either a bastard, a moron or both...
- Who is John Galt? - |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 12:04:44 PM
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Actually, I think it's a nice example of unintended consequences. No matter how a minority character is portrayed in fiction, someone will complain, so it's much safer to cut them out entirely, or make the characters so boring they make no impression on the audience.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 5:33:33 PM
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John Nowak and New Hinda, well said.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 06:15:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
No matter how a minority character is portrayed in fiction, someone will complain, so it's much safer to cut them out entirely, or make the characters so boring they make no impression on the audience.
One of my complaints with both the Native Americans in DANCES WITH WOLVES and the Jews in HOLOCAUST (with the exception of Anna, the Blanche Baker character) is that they were boring.
Have you heard the joke about the group of Native Americans who were standing outside a Hollywood studio, protesting stereotyped depictions of their people? It didn't help their cause when, after they'd been standing there chanting for half an hour, it began to rain. |
Edited by - New Hinda on 08/02/2006 06:17:10 AM |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 12:23:52 PM
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Wish I could've been there for that one.
"Hey, terrific! Keep up the good work!" [NOTE: To be delivered in non-serious impersonation of Rodney Dangerfield voice.] |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 10:26:04 PM
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>One of my complaints with both the Native Americans in DANCES WITH WOLVES and the Jews in HOLOCAUST (with the exception of Anna, the Blanche Baker character) is that they were boring.
Yeah, it is devilishly hard to write nice, normal, likable people who aren't boring. It's the David Manners Effect.
You know -- David Manners.
David Manners had a lead role in three of Universal's greatest horror films: Dracula, Black Cat, and The Mummy. Played the male lead hero who got, or kept, the girl. You remember him, right? Probably not.
If a loaf of Wonder Bread could act, it would probably come across like Manners did in those films. Not his fault, I think -- the films were focused on Karloff and Lugosi and he quite properly didn't try to upstage them. When you're in a film with Karloff, Lugosi, or Johann you just get out of the way. He was caught in the same, thankless role over and over, and I don't think anyone thinks of him as a significant horror star.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 3:16:25 PM
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Ya wanna hero thats always fun to watch? Dr. Who! Sylvester McCoy for one. Particulary when dealing with stuffed shirts ( Coronel Blimps, to our limey friends )You can have an enjoyable lead. Look at Indiana Jones. You just have to know how to write!
"Cole, stop handing Dr. Doom the Keys to the Baxter building." Brent Sienna/PvP.
"I speak 34 different languages. But gibberish is not one of them."- Danger Mouse.
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commodorejohn
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
76 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 6:24:12 PM
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The main problem I had with Pirates II was Cap'n Cthulhu. I couldn't go fifteen minutes without thinking I was watching a live-action adaptation of Unspeakable Vault Of Doom.
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Who -are- the overlords of the UFO? |
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