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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
 Posted - 08/05/2006 : 04:37:30 AM
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Well, i'll be willing to bet Mr. Singer is a little ticked at Dances With Wolves, for the same reasons that concern the "magical negro", or the mystical asian dude.
Here's an article on the "magic negro" that breaks it down:
[url]http://www.blackcommentator.com/49/49_magic.html[/url]
Please don't think that I, or any given black man for that matter, neccessarily agree with this guy in all his particulars. But the crucial sentence in this article is this one: "It isn't that the actors or the roles aren't likable, valuable or redemptive, but they are without interior lives."
Of course it's better to portrayed as an all-knowing fount of wisdom than as a racist caricature. And if there were only one or two examples of this--well, then it wouldn't be a cliche. It's not any individual instance of this that's the problem; it's that it HAS become a cliche, a way of "working a black guy into the movie" in a way that's quick, cheap, and thoughtless. And this is what gets me as a moviegoer, putting the race thing aside: it's emblematic of bad, 2-dimensional character writing. There are lots of cliches, and they're always tiresome; this one happens to be kind of offensive because it's one of the few roles that black people get in movies these days.
It's NOT about "goodness", mind you. I doubt you'd find many black people who had a problem with Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin in Daredevil. Sure he's the bad guy, but he's an INTERESTING bad guy. In fact, he kind of steals the movie. Another example might be Will Smith in "Hitch". He's kind of a dork at times, but he's still the hero; what happens to him is what's important to the movie. That's the crucial thing: the filmmakers (and thus, hopefully, the audience) care about these characters and have given thought to how they think and feel. When Black Dude #3 is just there to be the white hero's friend and be the fount of wisdom, or the guy who the killer gets first, it's obvious that the filmmakers are only giving a token nod to black people. This is a pretty transparent ploy.
What's annoying is that it's really easy to avoid this, and you do it the same way you write a good movie: care about the characters, give them internal lives, and don't just treat them like pawns towards the fulfillment of the plot. That goes for everyone, black, white or Serbo-Croatian. Redshirt #2 must have hopes, dreams, and aspirations. The fact that he's fated, in your movie, to deliver one line and then get eaten by the monster doesn't change that. It's just a sad effect of how formulaic movies have gotten that this is such a recurring problem.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2006 : 04:54:44 AM
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By the way, I think the current rumours about the Iron Man movie is very telling. In case you haven't heard, Terence Howard is apparently in talks to be in the movie--but NOT as Tony Stark. Tony Stark has not yet been cast, nor has anyone else. The first role they're apparently thinking of casting is James Rhodes. RIIIIIIGHT.
It's pretty darned obvious that some people, Favreau presumably among them, want to cast Howard as Stark and are perhaps floating this bit of news to see what the fanboy reaction will be. I can't imagine anyone not thinking Howard would be PERFECT for the role, right down to the mustache. But because he's not white, there appears to be some resistance to the idea.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Zev
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2006 : 5:38:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
I doubt you'd find many black people who had a problem with Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin in Daredevil. Sure he's the bad guy, but he's an INTERESTING bad guy. In fact, he kind of steals the movie.
Then again, he is introduced with a rap song about being a "dirty dog." Somehow, I can't see them doing that if, say, Robbie Coltrane had played Fisk.
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
Now they need to make a movie where soldiers in Iraq actually find one of Saddam Hussein's secret underground chemical weapons facilities only to find it overrrun with big mutant sand spiders. And the the film will be called IRAQNID!
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2006 : 06:01:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Yeah, it is devilishly hard to write nice, normal, likable people who aren't boring.
LIFE WITH FATHER? The original CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN? SINCE YOU WENT AWAY? IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT? |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2006 : 4:03:00 PM
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For possibly the first time ever, I agree with New Hinda. You can write good, decent, likable characters who aren't boring. The trouble is that you get these blockbusters with completely flat, generic characterization, so only the most flamboyant characters (or actors) end up being distinctive. And that usually means the villain or antihero.
quote:
Originally posted by Zev
Then again, he is introduced with a rap song about being a "dirty dog." Somehow, I can't see them doing that if, say, Robbie Coltrane had played Fisk.
Well, they also had that godawful Irish rap when Bullseye was introduced. The music in that movie was pretty dire. I can't hold that against any specific character.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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commodorejohn
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
76 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2006 : 4:23:10 PM
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It's most certainly possible to write likeable, ordinary characters who are still interesting, it's just that these sorts of characters have for so long been relegated to dreadful "family films" and "romantic comedies" in which everybody is either boring or unlikeable that we automatically associate them with movie-watching hell.
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Who -are- the overlords of the UFO? |
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Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2006 : 7:39:09 PM
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That's actually what I was kinda hoping Superman Returns would be about: the noble, stolid, faintly boring hero with immense power in a cynical world that may or may not need him anymore. They sort of hinted at that, but didn't develop it much.
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Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
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Ubiq
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 01:30:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Also the Nazgul were all white guys.
It's been a while since I've seen FotR, but Jackson made a mistake if that's the case as one of the Nazgul was an Easterling.
BM: I should have mentioned this at the beginning. I solve my problems with violence. |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 05:01:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Flangepart
Particulary when dealing with stuffed shirts ( Coronel Blimps, to our limey friends )
Our limey friends know what "stuffed shirts" are. George Orwell uses the expression in his essay "England, Your England." |
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Zev
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 10:28:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prankster
Well, they also had that godawful Irish rap when Bullseye was introduced. The music in that movie was pretty dire. I can't hold that against any specific character.
WAKE ME UP INSIIIIIIIIDE!
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
Now they need to make a movie where soldiers in Iraq actually find one of Saddam Hussein's secret underground chemical weapons facilities only to find it overrrun with big mutant sand spiders. And the the film will be called IRAQNID!
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 10:50:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by New Hinda
quote:
Originally posted by Flangepart
Particulary when dealing with stuffed shirts ( Coronel Blimps, to our limey friends )
Our limey friends know what "stuffed shirts" are. George Orwell uses the expression in his essay "England, Your England."
No intent to offend, comparde. Just threw it in for fun.
Boreing heros.
They exist, partly i belive, because some film makers may think "Good", meaning not wanting to think only of one's self, is too far from real.Hollywood is immersed in a cynical self intrest, and that colors how they see us folks in "Flyover" country.
What i mean is, they don't see them , the heroic types,as a source of conflict, and so they get intrested in the bad guys, as they are the "rock through the window" that sturrs things up.
Many actors say "Villians are so fun to play!" Well, true, if by that, you mean a safe way to do things that are not acceptable in real life.
Realistic bad guys, however, are not often so much fun. The two scumbags they caught in Arizona, for example. Two losers, who killed people who were no threat or problim to them, simply because they wanted to prove to themselves they had "Power".
Ya know....villians are fun to watch, in a comic book setting. It reminds us, they won't happen in real life. IN COLD BLOOD, however...
then we know just how scary the real thing is.
Thats when a "boreing hero" starts to look good.
"Cole, stop handing Dr. Doom the Keys to the Baxter building." Brent Sienna/PvP.
"I speak 34 different languages. But gibberish is not one of them."- Danger Mouse.
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2006 : 04:06:52 AM
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As I, and others said, no one gets out of PoCII with their dignity intact, except the Swanns. If there was a Pirate's association they'd be complaining about the Tortuga scenes.
But yes, there are more interesting black characters in the world of movie. Ben (?) in Night of The Living Dead, for example. But that was a masterpiece.
- Who is John Galt? - |
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BrainFromArous
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2006 : 12:26:22 PM
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I can't believe you people actually mentioned the Daredevil movie. Don't you know that children might be reading this? f--- ing crap, man.
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Boards don't hit back.
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Renfield
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2006 : 02:51:53 AM
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Not to shake up this hornet's nest again, but...it seems to me that black performers are very well represented in a lot of TV shows, movies, and certainly popular music. This is a huge difference from even a decade ago. Hard to believe in rampant white racism in the entertainment media under those circumstances.
Now, we overweight, middle-aged, slightly balding, terminally single white guys--we're real victims of the mass media!
--Joe "Renfield" Meadows
HORROR-WOOD Webzine
http://www.horror-wood.com |
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